9/11, and No Guns means No Right to Self-Defense

Напишано од Unleashed, 22.05.2015 at 04:24

Wake me up when you come back from fantasy land

Can't be bothered to argue? Alright.

Напишано од Skanderbeg, 22.05.2015 at 05:08

You need knowledge about collectivism to understand communism. Because capitalist countries like modern US or Russia and even China depend on capital to fund their armies, but not communist states. USSR had separate military-industrial complex which spammed weapons for the Red Army and they didnt depend on the economy or government. Thats why MiG, Sukhoi, Uralvagonzavod, Kamaz, Tupolev, Ilyushin, Yakovlev and Almaz had factories in Ural and Siberia, deep in USSR close to resource sources.

Soviet military-industrial complex had its own workforce, separate administration. They didnt depend on money from Moscow. Thats why United States and NATO didnt invade USSR in 1990 when communism collapsed, because states did died but not the military. Red Army could just conscript 50 million people without care for their politics and nationality, without paying them. Military industry could continue to spam weapons because of resources, they didnt need money for that.

Economy is the study of the distribution and allocation of scarce resources.

Soviet economy in 1990 was poor. I didn't say it was financially unstable, or it didn't have capital. I said the Soviet economy was poor. The Soviet Union's industry simply couldn't support the kind of military expansion needed to keep up with NATO.

If the Red Army conscripted 50 million people without paying them, well, good luck getting them armed, trained and fed. I somehow doubt the bureaucrats who run the arms factories or the state farms will be willing to hand it over to a stateless army without putting up a fight or at least sabotage.

Напишано од Skanderbeg, 22.05.2015 at 05:08

USSR had 4,000,000 active troops throughout Cold War, some of them were stationed in Warsaw Pact:

East Germany: 1,000,000
Poland: 300,000
Czechoslovakia: 300,000
Hungary: 300,000

When USSR started to collapse, Red Army just pulled back from Warsaw Pact to Russia, leaving also Ukraine, Baltic, Caucasus and Middle Asia. Why would they stay there, no need. Russian Federation doesnt need insignificant territories. Russian Federation could stay in Warsaw Pact as no one could kick them out, 300,000 strong troops are too much even for the unleashed's armed peasants. Not to mention 1954, 1956, 1968 and 1981, years civilians rioted in Warsaw Pact, they made nothing, just ended up executed and jailed for life.

North Korea today has 4 million troops. Still, nobody sane tries to claim that they are a strong country.
There are certain differences between numbers and strength.

Напишано од Skanderbeg, 22.05.2015 at 05:08

Also learn history, it is sad to lack so much knowledge for near history like that. Russia didnt existed for most of 20th century, so Czechoslovakia wasnt Russian ally, but Soviet one. Russia didnt fund Czechoslovakia, USSR did.

I didn't say that. You did.
"Russia fund Soviet allies in Warsaw Pact," you wrote.
It is sad that you can't even remember what you wrote and try to blame me for not knowing history.

Напишано од Skanderbeg, 22.05.2015 at 05:08

Keep dreaming about that, Poland with prosperous economy... I really like Western propaganda, true Orwelian style. There is no competition in Poland, corporations from EU backed by EU politics are draining Poland, using cheap workforce, destroying small business, there are no start-up companies, they make death threats, burning their cars, threat their families, burn their homes, attack them on streets. Polish government is on EU payroll no matter what politicians are elected, they have to pursue EU interest and not of its own people. Crime is pervasive and police is not helping civilians.

Conspiracy theory much?
1. The Polish economy still has much, much more free competition than Russia does.
2. Cheap workforce? Maybe in in the 1990's, that was true. Definitely not now. I've seen prices in Warsaw and Krakow. The minimum wage there is definitely enough to live a decent life.
3. Destroying small business and no start-up companies? Yeah, we call that a "recession." Its a problem already being worked on.
As for all your claims of social disorder, that is quite absurd. I've been to Poland and I have as friends a couple Poles. None of us had any fear about walking the streets of Krakow at night. State violence? Negligible. Crime? Lower than the United States, despite being three times as poor.

Напишано од Skanderbeg, 22.05.2015 at 05:08

Same with Baltic, Czech, Slovakia, Hungary. Hungary was forced to close down all wineries because EU is making wine, Hungary have to consume it, not produce it.

Evidence for this conspiracy of yours?

Напишано од Skanderbeg, 22.05.2015 at 05:08

EU accepted ex-Warsaw Pact members only to have free open borders with them with Free Trade Agreements so they can sell their products,

That's what economic unions are for. Economies of scale. Making stuff for 500 million people allows companies to lower their costs compared to making stuff for 200 million people.

Напишано од Skanderbeg, 22.05.2015 at 05:08

Eastern Europe is colonized by the West and they produce nothing, build nothing, doing nothing. There are million people unemployed, without future, using drugs, girls have better chances in prostitution than in school

There are millions unemployed in any capitalist country. That's kind of how capitalism works.
Prostitutes' wages are decent because not many people want to become prostitutes. That's how supply and demand works. Obviously, as the rest of the economy grows richer, prostitutes grow richer too as their clients has more money.

Напишано од Skanderbeg, 22.05.2015 at 05:08

and Eastern European politicians are spamming propaganda all over Eastern European cities how EU is good, EU is future, EU is light, EU is paradise, we should all join EU, EU is prosperous, EU is tolerant, no crime in EU, EU is rich. While EU is only extended hand of the US to control economies and financials as US is neo-imperialist, it doesnt conquer land like UK, but economies.

The presence of highly eurosceptic parties across the European Union (I know as a fact there's at least one in the UK and at least one major party in Poland) dispute that assumption.

Напишано од Skanderbeg, 22.05.2015 at 05:08

I even bet Western Media are now telling how Ukraine is doing good after one year under nazism, economy blossoming. But sour reality is that ukrainians are waiting in lines for bread, milk, oil, soap. No heat, no money to repair homes, no money to repair roads and infrastructure their government destroyed in war.

You bet quite wrong, actually. Dirt poor country, Ukraine. They had, what, 30% of Poland's GDP/capita last year (World Bank, IMF)?

That's even compared to Poland, which is quite poor itself compared to the huge economies of western Europe.

Напишано од Skanderbeg, 22.05.2015 at 05:08

Eastern Europe is enslaved and colonized by the West, thats a fact everyone know, even Eastern European people, but they have to be silent because their puppet government use criminals beside police to torture them. It is not unusual for them to pay $500 some punk to beat people on the streets on the eyes of police officer. 50% of Eastern European population is brainwashed by now unfortunately,

Again, evidence? You've listed out a string of unsupported hypothesis.

Напишано од Skanderbeg, 22.05.2015 at 05:08

its been 25 years since collapse of communism, but other 50% is remembering that time with nostalia. Not because communism is better or perfect, but because life was easier, there was no crime, they had secured jobs, good wages, you could walk down the street and no one would harm you, you would even get a smile from other walkers. Today they carry guns, look at you with suspicion and when you try to say hello they pull out their gun and shoot at you.

People will always remember their past with nostalgia, no matter how horrible it was.
Sure. Life was easier. It's easy to live when you're being told what to do. I still think that's a horrible idea.
Secured jobs, sure. Socialist economy. With its disastrous effects on economic growth.
Good wages? Statistics say otherwise. There was a popular labor movement in 1981 Poland (Socialist state) and one of the demands of the protesters was that Poland should stop exporting grain. What kind of people demands that their government stop exporting grain?

Oh, right. Starving people do. What lovely "good wages" they had there, eh?

Напишано од Skanderbeg, 22.05.2015 at 05:08

I dont support communism, but i support Putin when he said collapse of the USSR was the greatest event and damage in the World in the 20th century. Because if USSR survived it could reform economy like People's China did, while maintaining order and peace. Drugs could be stopped in USSR, Poland and Czechoslovakia would be protected by invasive EU,

You do realize, I hope, that China doesn't have a good human right record either? Worse than the United States, even. Post-communist Poland, former Czechoslovakia and the post-independence Baltic States all have much better human rights records.

Напишано од Skanderbeg, 22.05.2015 at 05:08

not militarily, but financially, there would be no crime. It wouldnt matter if one-party system stay like in China, its even better than democratic system of the West were they cheat on elections and lie to their people about their party program. We can see results from multiparty Italy, Germany, UK, France and US how their economy is doing, and then check single-party China's economy and you see the difference, EU and US economies are in recession while China is growing. So thats a result.

It's called investment. You seem to think that it's a horrible thing that must be stopped. Why? Look at South Korea 1970~2000. Have a look at Thailand 1980~2010. Have a look at West Germany, post WWII. Foreign investment is an incredibly fast route in building an economy or repairing a broken one. How long do you think it would have taken the prosperous northeastern European states to reach its current economic development if the rich Western Europeans with nothing to do with their money didn't buy up their companies?

The EU and the US, with countries nearing and over $50,000 per capital annual income, have to innovate. Find ways to work that nobody's done before.
China, with a little under $10,000 per capita annual income, simply have to travel along the well-known and well-paved path of industrialization, the same path that dozens of countries have already gone through and the same path that has been studied in thousands of economic papers.

China knows the way forward, thanks to the dozens of countries that have walked the same path. Germany doesn't. Obviously China has faster growth. That has nothing to do with their political systems.

Zombieyeti International you were doing fine up until the point you started spouting bullshit again. It is clear to me you know shit about Europe. You really need to delve more into the subject if you dont want to appear like an ignorant idiot. And if you do not want to loose a debate against such an easy opponent like Tito.

You have no idea, how the EU economic and political system work and in general you have no clue whats going on here. After the fiasco in the Greek thread, where i posted evidence, proof, data and historical truths and you replied with inhumane and racist one liner opinions, its clear you dont deserve much attention and energy from me. You deserve a Tito


Everything Tito said about Western influence and tactics on Eastern Europe is correct, it is not a consiparacy theory, except the parts about Russia and Soviet Union's influence, which are biased bullshit. Eu (the west) is a horendous bully, it has destroyed numerous economies and whole countries (european) and will destroy itself eventually. The lucky one will be UK, if it manages to leave the ship before it sinks. Eu has made baltics, poland, hungary, balkans, all to puppet states, sucking them off dry and destroying them in the process, everyone fucking knows that. Apparently you are the only one who does not and you cannot ask all the time for proof to things that are common knowledge to most of us. Just because you are uneducated in a matter, it does not mean me or Tito or anyone, has the time and energy, to search the net, for every single thing, because you want your educational food "chewed" and being "fed" to you. Offcourse you will appeal to ignorance like always, as if anyone debating with you has the burden of proof on his soulders and its never on to you, even if you are both making claims. I didnt see you backing up your arguments with proof in the Greek thread and im not seeing much proof in general from you, just your opinions usually, based on your theoretical knowledge on some subjects. And just using an anecdotal experience and one statistic (which can be misleading) or even fake (may i remind you how Greece fakes numbers and official statistics since 1980? ) is certainly not proof enough,

for example the POLAND thing, a galore of fallacies and ignorance from you. Where do you get your info on Polan? Polish are still cleaning toilets, they still have horrible standard of living and their country is still a shithole not prosperous. Are things better now, than Polan under Soviet? Probably. Is it because the West is helping Polan, while USSR was mean to it? NO. By the way you should know Germany forgave 50% of polans debt in 1991 to lure it in and make it its slave. Now they have a good gdp and show economic growth every year, BUT their external debt is 350 billions, they are forced to BUY military equipment they cant afford that abide to NATO standards (polish military industry alone had to fire 100.000 employs in 5 years to join the European union of scamers and thiefs.Eu companies have now bought everything dirt poor, the state doesnt have shit anymore, unemployment and poverty still ravage the country and the wages are indeed, low. Polandians get shit from the supposed growth, all the money goes to the big companies and flies out of the country, the only difference to Polan is that now it cleans european toilets instead of Russian. I will agree they are cleaner and more stylish. Also 2 million polish migrated since 2004 to the West, because they couldnt get by, yeah very prosperous country.

The same more or less, apply to the baltics and other pre-soviet puppets, which are now Eu puppets, seeing some economic growth while they are enslaved in the process (hi romania). Carefull plan, they control their agriculture and exports through laws and subsidies ( like tito said making farmers in some countries forced to produce nothing) buy everything through privatization, buy their governments, give them loans, make them buy stuff, repeat. (in short)

But the real point is that a false dilemma is what all this is, as you and tito both, think there are only 2 sides of a coin, 2 truths. Well theres more. Maybe you can both be right. And/or both be wrong? Maybe stop being mindless government drones spourting West and East propaganda and admit some universal truths/ judge facts unbiased amd finally accept that both sides are shit, like the rest of us, normal rational people?

Напишано од Khal.eesi, 22.05.2015 at 12:03

Hmm... your profile says you come from Thailand. I find it very odd that somebody living surrounded by truly poor countries (Cambodia, Myanmar) would claim that Poland is poor.

It is a bloody well-developed country. It might not be as rich as those commerce-dominated nations to the west, but it's still bloody rich.

Poland's minimum wage is 21,000 PLN, or 5,400 US dollar equivalents per year. Adjusting for prices, since in Poland prices are about half of that of the US, Poland's minimum wage is 11,700 PPP-adjusted international dollars. The average PPP-adjusted world income is about 12,000 international dollars,, which means that if you earn the minimum wage in Poland, that already puts you at average and quite a bit above the median (no reliable sources here, but various sites estimate median income at around 13,000 PPP-adjusted dollars per household, which translates to about 3,000 per person).

Is western Europe extracting wealth from Poland? Yes. That's returns on investment.
Is Poland's economy not as independent as it used to be? Also yes. That's called free trade.

But let's not pretend that Poland's economy is in ruins. It isn't. It's very prosperous.

Sources Used:
https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=SNA_TABLE4
http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/USDPLN:CUR
http://www.mpips.gov.pl/prawo-pracy/wynagrodzenia/
http://www.census.gov/popclock/
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/xx.html

If you insist I'll write up something similar for Lithuania or the Czech Republic. I'm afraid that numbers for Slovakia and the other two Baltic States are somewhat harder to come by.

EDIT: Now what I'm wondering is... how on earth did we end up arguing Poland's prosperity in a thread about gun rights? Haha...

"Putin The Great"

So funny, how you have the need to worship something/someone. Your god, your president, someone, anyone. Must worship him, must use his pic, must give him responsibility.

The thought that you could be free, not worshipping or obeying anyone, in other words self reliance, scares the shit out of you.

Напишано од Unleashed, 22.05.2015 at 04:24

Wake me up when you come back from fantasy land

Won't happen, International is the biggest joke on this forum

Just a friendly comment passing by

Напишано од Viruslegion, 23.05.2015 at 13:32

Напишано од Unleashed, 22.05.2015 at 04:24

Wake me up when you come back from fantasy land

Won't happen, International is the biggest joke on this forum

How courteous of you.

Напишано од Skanderbeg, 22.05.2015 at 05:08

I dont support communism,

Bahahaahahahahahahaha
> says 'doesnt support' communism
> makes a clan named by Communist Party of Yugoslavia
> Puts Stalin as avatar
> Puts Stalin's words in forums
> Against communist signs and communism at all being prohibited as totalitary system same as fascism is
> His former nickname was 'Tito', one of biggest communists and massive killers in the world (on the 10th spot of the biggest killers from 20th century)
> check his other comments

Are you finally going to realise this guy is a biggest liar, troll, provoker and insulter.
Also, check the numbers he is posting around. No, those are not even numbers from wikipedia (the page full of mistakes), those are numbers from his head. You have an example just above in this thread about number of Croatian generals in YU army....
If you are still getting him seriously, better go check yourself at doctor, something is wrong with you.

Напишано од Skanderbeg, 28.05.2015 at 12:13

If you really join internet game clans to support your real life ideology; you have mental problems, please seek help.

I am a real life samurai, problem?

Напишано од Skanderbeg, 28.05.2015 at 14:16

No problem... but that guy's mind is really f*cked up, he tell me im evil commie because i was in a communist clan and he is in MAFIA clan and have FASCIST avatar, his words backfired at him like rake in cartoons

let me be like you:

I will add swastika to my profile, atwar is just an internet game. how can you accuse me as fascist?

Message for Tito...

Idi bre ...pa se leči.

Напишано од Goblin, 28.05.2015 at 17:43

Nema te medicine za njegovu dijagnozu

Напишано од Croat, 29.05.2015 at 02:23

Напишано од Goblin, 28.05.2015 at 17:43

ENGLISH!

English english english english!

Come on… let people actually read what you're writing, yeah?

Напишано од International, 29.05.2015 at 03:01

Goblin: Message for Tito, go heal yourself
Croat: There is no medicine for his diagnosis

If nothing, you are learning Croatian language

Напишано од Croat, 29.05.2015 at 03:03

Напишано од International, 29.05.2015 at 03:01

Goblin: Message for Tito, go heal yourself
Croat: There is no medicine for his diagnosis

If nothing, you are learning Croatian language

You people…

Why won't you get along?

Напишано од International, 29.05.2015 at 03:07

You people…

Why won't you get along?

It was actually a joke mocking our politicians ...Tito's response should be "i'm afraid, goblin will never heal himself from his fascism"