Views on Multiculturalism?

Напишано од Abraham, 20.03.2019 at 03:35

The idea of multiculturalism is very nice in theory, but in practice it has several issues, one of them is the unwillingness of some foreigners to integrate or respect the local culture, laws or sovereignty.
The second one is resentment of many of the first, second, third, fourth etc. generations of immigrants to the locals, who sometimes express themselves in terrible crimes because of the feeling of inferiority among other reasons.
Third is the lack of loyalty of many of them to the country they migrated to.
Fourth is when they become financial burden to the country.
Fifth is the sense of loss of safety and identity by the locals, and the desire to preserve the local culture and the local people from intermingling with the foreigners, especially when there are waves after waves of unchecked and illegal immigrants, which encourage the locals to hate the foreigners out of fear. And it sometimes spread to outward animosity, to an entire ethnicity or race, that could've been avoided if there weren't that many foreigners in their country.

tldr - I think as long as they aren't too many, follow the rules, accept and appreciate the culture, and integrate with the locals it's fine.

Here in America nearly every immigrant integrates successfully, and their kids are culturally indistinguishable from the average American. So there's a strong pro-immigrant stance here, except from uneducated, low-income people, who tend to be scared that immigrants will "take their jobs". But who cares about people like them anyways. Is it really immigrants fault that anti-immigrants failed to get an education and even try for a better life? Of course immigrants are going to "take" jobs. They'll work, educate their children, who will enter the middle class and start paying taxes. It's not immigrants' fault that the least mentally-equipped people born in American can't compete.

At least in the US, immigrants actually commit less crimes and earn more money than a nativeborn American. This is especially true for Indian and Taiwanese/Chinese immigrant, who earn approximately 60% and 50% more than the average nativeborn American and commit 3-4 times less crime on average. Even combining in Mexican Americans makes the immigrant crime rate remain below that of nativeborn Americans.

Not sure what's going on with Europe. Perhaps the hostile environment is making it harder for migrants to integrate? Of course the police should be on hand when any crimes do occur, but local governments should encourage a strong education and pro-integration stance within migrants.

Напишано од Player 999, 20.03.2019 at 17:25

Напишано од Abraham, 20.03.2019 at 03:35

The idea of multiculturalism is very nice in theory, but in practice it has several issues, one of them is the unwillingness of some foreigners to integrate or respect the local culture, laws or sovereignty.
The second one is resentment of many of the first, second, third, fourth etc. generations of immigrants to the locals, who sometimes express themselves in terrible crimes because of the feeling of inferiority among other reasons.
Third is the lack of loyalty of many of them to the country they migrated to.
Fourth is when they become financial burden to the country.
Fifth is the sense of loss of safety and identity by the locals, and the desire to preserve the local culture and the local people from intermingling with the foreigners, especially when there are waves after waves of unchecked and illegal immigrants, which encourage the locals to hate the foreigners out of fear. And it sometimes spread to outward animosity, to an entire ethnicity or race, that could've been avoided if there weren't that many foreigners in their country.

tldr - I think as long as they aren't too many, follow the rules, accept and appreciate the culture, and integrate with the locals it's fine.

Here in America nearly every immigrant integrates successfully, and their kids are culturally indistinguishable from the average American. So there's a strong pro-immigrant stance here, except from uneducated, low-income people, who tend to be scared that immigrants will "take their jobs". But who cares about people like them anyways. Is it really immigrants fault that anti-immigrants failed to get an education and even try for a better life? Of course immigrants are going to "take" jobs. They'll work, educate their children, who will enter the middle class and start paying taxes. It's not immigrants' fault that the least mentally-equipped people born in American can't compete.

At least in the US, immigrants actually commit less crimes and earn more money than a nativeborn American. This is especially true for Indian and Taiwanese/Chinese immigrant, who earn approximately 60% and 50% more than the average nativeborn American and commit 3-4 times less crime on average. Even combining in Mexican Americans makes the immigrant crime rate remain below that of nativeborn Americans.

Not sure what's going on with Europe. Perhaps the hostile environment is making it harder for migrants to integrate? Of course the police should be on hand when any crimes do occur, but local governments should encourage a strong education and pro-integration stance within migrants.

Earlier, in the room chat, you wrote one reason

"C_Sharp_Expert: How about german refugees?

C_Sharp_Expert: They are nasty rapists

Sean Spicer.: american refugees

C_Sharp_Expert: raped so many french women in 1950s

PUcHaOTheGreek: lol

C_Sharp_Expert: Also those london refugees in 1941 pretty bad

C_Sharp_Expert: Stole all the food from the rural people

C_Sharp_Expert: To be honest there is a difference between refugees and skilled immigrants. Refugees often dumb, but skilled immigrants very smart

C_Sharp_Expert: Europe gets category 1, USA gets category 2. T

C_Sharp_Expert: So that's why europe so butthurt in recent years

Batman.. is online

C_Sharp_Expert: No one with a brain wants to come to brain. Only people desperate want to come to europe

C_Sharp_Expert: europe*

Waffel is online

Waffel: DO YOU BELIEVE IN LIFE AFTER LOVEEEE

hdrakon: You answered your own question c sharp

Waffel: I CAN FEEEL SOMETHING INSIDEE OF MEEE

Waffel: I REALLY DONT IM STRONG ENOUGH NOWW EH

Waffel: I have a brain and I sure as hell do not want to come to brain

Waffel: Also in my humble without the desire to offend those who think different from my point of view, but looking at it in depth, taking into account the characteristics of each person, the biological construction and physical ability I honestly think europe is the best continent

Waffel: humble opinion*

C_Sharp_Expert: good point

hdrakon: And I agree

C_Sharp_Expert: But yes the most favored destination of high-iq people from India/China is USA

Waffel: Because America has been calling to shots

C_Sharp_Expert: And for middle east the smartest go to USA. The average/dumb ones go to Europe

Waffel: For no reason at all

Waffel: Besides the act of war

Waffel: Cant believe you just said average dumb ones

Waffel: When our education is mostly higher than the one in usa

C_Sharp_Expert: No one with real skills wants to go to Europe. Thus europe sees a misrepresented image

C_Sharp_Expert: hahaha

C_Sharp_Expert: Education may be cheaper I def agree. But salaries are a lot lower"

The other reasons are that most of those refugee or illegal immigrants come from areas that do not tolerant different people, they come from areas where they are taught to hate the west so they become a threat to the national security, most of them refuse to assimilate and prefer to live in their own small communities which often becomes a "no go zone" for the locals and the police.
And some of them push their culture and belief down people's throats, even demanding the country to change it's customs to fit them. For example, when muslims petitioned to ban the oktoberfest in Germany.

Or the protest of black people against a
black Christmas character in Netherlands, and their demand to stop using this character, because they consider it racist that white people use make up to look like a black character.


Only little percentage of the migrants to Europe assimilate and do well. For example, there are lot of Indian doctors in the UK but that just a drop in the bucket. There are a lot of organisations that try to help them. The governments do try to integrate them in the society. They passed laws and made plans on how to handle them the best way possible. But it's hard to fit in people who don't want to fit in.

At least it works in the US

Напишано од Abraham, 21.03.2019 at 04:31

The other reasons are that most of those refugee or illegal immigrants come from areas that do not tolerant different people, they come from areas where they are taught to hate the west so they become a threat to the national security, most of them refuse to assimilate and prefer to live in their own small communities which often becomes a "no go zone" for the locals and the police.
And some of them push their culture and belief down people's throats, even demanding the country to change it's customs to fit them. For example, When muslims petitioned to ban the oktoberfest in Germany.

Or the protest of black people against a
black Christmas character in Netherlands, and their demand to stop using this character, because they consider it racist that white people use make up to look like a black character.

Only little percentage of the migrants to Europe assimilate and do well. For example, there are lot of Indian doctors in the UK but that just a drop in the bucket. There are a lot of organisations that try to help them. The governments do try to integrate them in the society. They passed laws and made plans on how to handle them the best way possible. But it's hard to fit in people who don't want to fit in.

At least it works in the US

Eventhough I wanted to refrain from this subject, since its basically the same thing over and over again, but then I noticed you mentioned NL and I would like to correct you on that misguided comment.

First of all, the protests about black Pete isn't about the make-up. Don't take things out or context now. The people demonstrated about the fact that black pete is portrayed as a black character and a slave of St. Nicholas. NL has a colourful history when it comes down to slavery, so you have to understand its kind of a touchy subject. The people who complain about black pete, are not the immigrants you talked about whom would not integrate or came from areas where they were taught to hate the west. Those people mostly came from the Dutch Caribbean (Central America) and receive the dutch nationality the second they are born. So I am not sure what this subject has to do with the flawed immigration problem you try to adress.

As for the multiculturalism problem, as someone from Amsterdam, probably one of the most multicultural capitals of the world, I'd say most of these problems are portrayed atleast 10 times worse by the media than it is in reality, just to create division within a community. Most immigrants in NL are verry happy and thankful to be here and try to integrate asap, ofcourse not all of them, but most of them do. The real problem is imo, that people seem to lose their own rationality and morality and judge things merely based on subjective and false things they hear from politicians/media. Populism is getting verry popular again and thats kind of frightening if you ask me. It seems like mankind keeps forgetting their own history and repeat it every 50/60 years.

Sad if you ask me..

Напишано од Waffel, 21.03.2019 at 07:00

Напишано од Abraham, 21.03.2019 at 04:31

The other reasons are that most of those refugee or illegal immigrants come from areas that do not tolerant different people, they come from areas where they are taught to hate the west so they become a threat to the national security, most of them refuse to assimilate and prefer to live in their own small communities which often becomes a "no go zone" for the locals and the police.
And some of them push their culture and belief down people's throats, even demanding the country to change it's customs to fit them. For example, When muslims petitioned to ban the oktoberfest in Germany.

Or the protest of black people against a
black Christmas character in Netherlands, and their demand to stop using this character, because they consider it racist that white people use make up to look like a black character.

Only little percentage of the migrants to Europe assimilate and do well. For example, there are lot of Indian doctors in the UK but that just a drop in the bucket. There are a lot of organisations that try to help them. The governments do try to integrate them in the society. They passed laws and made plans on how to handle them the best way possible. But it's hard to fit in people who don't want to fit in.

At least it works in the US

Eventhough I wanted to refrain from this subject, since its basically the same thing over and over again, but then I noticed you mentioned NL and I would like to correct you on that misguided comment.

First of all, the protests about black Pete isn't about the make-up. Don't take things out or context now. The people demonstrated about the fact that black pete is portrayed as a black character and a slave of St. Nicholas. NL has a colourful history when it comes down to slavery, so you have to understand its kind of a touchy subject. The people who complain about black pete, are not the immigrants you talked about whom would not integrate or came from areas where they were taught to hate the west. Those people mostly came from the Dutch Caribbean (Central America) and receive the dutch nationality the second they are born. So I am not sure what this subject has to do with the flawed immigration problem you try to adress.

As for the multiculturalism problem, as someone from Amsterdam, probably one of the most multicultural capitals of the world, I'd say most of these problems are portrayed atleast 10 times worse by the media than it is in reality, just to create division within a community. Most immigrants in NL are verry happy and thankful to be here and try to integrate asap, ofcourse not all of them, but most of them do. The real problem is imo, that people seem to lose their own rationality and morality and judge things merely based on subjective and false things they hear from politicians/media. Populism is getting verry popular again and thats kind of frightening if you ask me. It seems like mankind keeps forgetting their own history and repeat it every 50/60 years.

Sad if you ask me..

I agree with you that the media tend to exaggerate with the reports in order to create a split between communities for political ends, or goals that benefit certain elites.

As for these black Dutch Caribbean, they were originally from Africa. The very fact that they are Dutch nationals doesn't change the fact that they aren't ethnically Dutch, no matter how long they will be under Dutch control, or part of the society, they won't be ethnically Dutch and they will not feel part of the Dutch people sometimes. For example, they complain about this character even though this character is liked by adults and kids, has been part of the Dutch tradition for over 250 years, and is shown as a happy character that gives sweets to children with no intention of harming, or portraying blacks in a negative spotlight at least in modern time.

Напишано од Abraham, 21.03.2019 at 04:31

The other reasons are that most of those refugee or illegal immigrants come from areas that do not tolerant different people, they come from areas where they are taught to hate the west so they become a threat to the national security, most of them refuse to assimilate and prefer to live in their own small communities which often becomes a "no go zone" for the locals and the police.

Only little percentage of the migrants to Europe assimilate and do well. For example, there are lot of Indian doctors in the UK but that just a drop in the bucket. There are a lot of organisations that try to help them. The governments do try to integrate them in the society. They passed laws and made plans on how to handle them the best way possible. But it's hard to fit in people who don't want to fit in.

Yeah tbh I'm not sure what the issue in Europe is, if it's just not filtering in the highly-skilled or just an issue that naturally comes when 3 million people come from one country to another. America's got a system where it takes in the highly-skilled, so immigrants from Asia and even Africa tend to be highly educated and intelligent, contributing to their communities and causing little to no crime. Of course there is also the angle that if refugees in Europe are already being faced with hate, why wouldn't they be hateful back. But that probably doesn't explain all of it.

Are people being given a lot of welfare that incentivizes a lack of work? Is there a language barrier? Is there a lack of access to education? A lack of jobs/opportunities etc? Is it just the media just exaggerating things, as Waffel is saying in the case in NL? Things in America are perfectly fine and the refugees that do come integrate within the first generation and are indistinguishable from native-born Americans by the second generation. Not sure why Europe has an issue. Perhaps there has to be more nationalism for the country and less nationalism for ethnic group/race. There is a huge amount of patriotism in America and maybe that may be helping.

There are plenty of books and movies tackling this subject. However, here in Europe we have a neo-nationalism going on, even if so few give a damn about culture anymore. I've studied about Romanian personalities who were really engaged in the European culture and I love them. I can give examples but idk who will be interested. Also, we have/had personalities who loved this country so much, who harnessed traditional culture and produced immortal works of art based on it.

My view is that you need to have a foot embedded in Europe/World, but your 'main foot' to stay in your native country and city, to love them wholeheartedly.

I have a Taco Bell, Panda Express, Olive Garden, and Outback Steakhouse near my house, That's all the multiculturalism I need thanks.

Напишано од Tirpitz406, 19.03.2019 at 13:25

Напишано од Player 999, 19.03.2019 at 13:23

Multiculturism is fine. Too many people think it means "violent outsiders" coming in, but it really just means people who happen to have different cultures coming together and combining them. Completing harmless; no need for xenophobia.

Is it a good prospect, that Germans will probably be a minority in Germany in ~80 years?

My opinion on multiculturalism is, that it is fine to have a certain amount of foreigners within ones country, but that the amount of foreigner and foreigner descendant population should never rise above 5-10% of our population, because then the very nature of my country, which is one of the best countries to live in is threatened, and I don't want to live in a Germany slowly corroding into Somalia.

So why don't you start enforcing laws? No new laws, not bringing back old laws, just enforcing current laws, only this. This is boggling me for years now, watching western europe struggle with foreign minority, while having developed police force, court/juducial system and prison infrastructure. Either you don't know how to solve this simple problem or you know but someone is not allowing you (someone bribing judges, police officers to turn a blind eye, ordering politicians to not address the issue)

Crime reported > search for suspect > arrest > indict > imprison... rinse and repeat

Напишано од Skanderbeg, 26.03.2019 at 13:51

So why don't you start enforcing laws? No new laws, not bringing back old laws, just enforcing current laws, only this. This is boggling me for years now, watching western europe struggle with foreign minority, while having developed police force, court/juducial system and prison infrastructure. Either you don't know how to solve this simple problem or you know but someone is not allowing you (someone bribing judges, police officers to turn a blind eye, ordering politicians to not address the issue)

Crime reported > search for suspect > arrest > indict > imprison... rinse and repeat

Because enforcing laws would be racist.

I think Saudi Arabia, Israel, and China need some multiculturalism. The western world needs to share this wealth.

Напишано од Acquiesce, 26.03.2019 at 16:18

I think Saudi Arabia, Israel, and China need some multiculturalism. The western world needs to share this wealth.

Open borders for Israel!

Напишано од Tirpitz406, 26.03.2019 at 16:13

Because enforcing laws would be racist.

Well then, you're f*cked. Emigrate or find likeminded to form gated community. Or vote some other party that wont invite migrants and receive bribes to not enforce laws.