New upgrades too unfair for non-premiums?

Напишано од clovis1122, 31.03.2016 at 11:46

Напишано од Director Aries, 31.03.2016 at 11:11

What I meant by "even match is if you both played level 0 guest accounts w/o upgrades or generals, you'd be even.

Okay, let's just keep clear that no match can be even between prem and non-prem players.

Obviously, thanks for missing the point completely. Skill equality is possible.................... r0 guest accounts w/o premium would reveal even skill. My point is that the advantage gained by a general takes real skill to create, you can't just buy a general and shit all over every non premium player........ And the advantage of the unit, without the skill, is nearly nothing. The unit IS an advantage, which you should have seen me post several times, but it's not THAT BIG of an advantage. NOT AS MUCH as something like IF or DS

Напишано од Director Aries, 31.03.2016 at 13:24

Напишано од clovis1122, 31.03.2016 at 11:46

Напишано од Director Aries, 31.03.2016 at 11:11

What I meant by "even match is if you both played level 0 guest accounts w/o upgrades or generals, you'd be even.

Okay, let's just keep clear that no match can be even between prem and non-prem players.

Obviously, thanks for missing the point completely. Skill equality is possible.................... r0 guest accounts w/o premium would reveal even skill. My point is that the advantage gained by a general takes real skill to create, you can't just buy a general and shit all over every non premium player........ And the advantage of the unit, without the skill, is nearly nothing. The unit IS an advantage, which you should have seen me post several times, but it's not THAT BIG of an advantage. NOT AS MUCH as something like IF or DS

No not really, I got prem really late, r8. There was an instant extremely powerful boost.

Напишано од Xenosapien, 31.03.2016 at 13:29

Напишано од Director Aries, 31.03.2016 at 13:24

Напишано од clovis1122, 31.03.2016 at 11:46

Напишано од Director Aries, 31.03.2016 at 11:11

What I meant by "even match is if you both played level 0 guest accounts w/o upgrades or generals, you'd be even.

Okay, let's just keep clear that no match can be even between prem and non-prem players.

Obviously, thanks for missing the point completely. Skill equality is possible.................... r0 guest accounts w/o premium would reveal even skill. My point is that the advantage gained by a general takes real skill to create, you can't just buy a general and shit all over every non premium player........ And the advantage of the unit, without the skill, is nearly nothing. The unit IS an advantage, which you should have seen me post several times, but it's not THAT BIG of an advantage. NOT AS MUCH as something like IF or DS

No not really, I got prem really late, r8. There was an instant extremely powerful boost.

I bought my premium at R7 and it bumped me to R8 because of the extra achievements available to premiums. Granted I was halfway through 7, it's still a LOT of SP. That being said, the larger advantages are premium strategies, I don't see why everyone is bitching about an upgrade that only affects 1 unit.

Напишано од Director Aries, 31.03.2016 at 13:31

Напишано од Xenosapien, 31.03.2016 at 13:29

Напишано од Director Aries, 31.03.2016 at 13:24

Напишано од clovis1122, 31.03.2016 at 11:46

Напишано од Director Aries, 31.03.2016 at 11:11

What I meant by "even match is if you both played level 0 guest accounts w/o upgrades or generals, you'd be even.

Okay, let's just keep clear that no match can be even between prem and non-prem players.

Obviously, thanks for missing the point completely. Skill equality is possible.................... r0 guest accounts w/o premium would reveal even skill. My point is that the advantage gained by a general takes real skill to create, you can't just buy a general and shit all over every non premium player........ And the advantage of the unit, without the skill, is nearly nothing. The unit IS an advantage, which you should have seen me post several times, but it's not THAT BIG of an advantage. NOT AS MUCH as something like IF or DS

No not really, I got prem really late, r8. There was an instant extremely powerful boost.

I bought my premium at R7 and it bumped me to R8 because of the extra achievements available to premiums. Granted I was halfway through 7, it's still a LOT of SP. That being said, the larger advantages are premium strategies, I don't see why everyone is bitching about an upgrade that only affects 1 unit.

the larger advantage is by far the stack bonuses you get. sm imp gw pd nc.... they are good strats. Prem gives some powerful ones yes but not more so than non prem ones, the true advantage of them is having more flexibility/options.

Напишано од Director Aries, 31.03.2016 at 09:39

The general is not THAT op. Does it tip an even match to the side of a premium player, sure? But that's assuming it was an even match to begin with. Pay to win would be if premium players got extra units for every city, or buildable units not available to free players that shit on the normal units. Pay to win implies that the lower level players can beat the higher level players with a little bit of cash. This is not, and based on the admins, will never be that. This is a game where you get a couple of perks for paying, but most of what you get is available for free.

1) If you are going to argue a point, at least make sure not to contradict your self. By stating it is not OP, but than right after stating it gives an advantage to premium players (which is pay to win regardless of your opinion).

2) I never stated it was OP, for that their is no answer since a niche game like atWar does not yet have a solid definition of overpowered.

3) All you have proved is what I said, that there are players that are stubborn and players that are correct. The definition of pay to win is not a lower rank will beat a higher rank by paying. You can buy $2000 skins on CS:GO, does that give you an advantage? Of course not! Pay 2 Win is: that any player gets and advantage (even if it's small advantage) over another player regardless of skill/rank through the means of paying money/buying in-game currency. That does not guarantee a win by any means (at least in the case of atWar), but still an advantage.

4)Play CW's and duels with out general/any premium strategies/upgrades and tell me you still do not have a disadvantage. Of course luck is a factor in atWar which has been also proven to be a fact by many players that at the end of the day premium or not, luck always remains a factor. That does not diminish the advantage of premium.

Напишано од Director Aries, 31.03.2016 at 13:24

NOT AS MUCH as something like IF or DS

Okay, so we agree that general is an advantage. Even at rank 0 you still got one extra unit for walling (which mean a lot in games with low reinforcements like Europe 3k).

So your whole point is reduced to general representing a little advantage compared to the premium strategies.

But every strategy have its boosts and Nerf. In fact, PD is one of the most (if not the most) played strategy on 3v3 meta game due to its all-around conditions. And is not even premium.

Both HW and LB are considered useless by a big part of the community anywhere . IF is horrendously slow and DS is still way too expensive for a lategame. I could of find a fair counter to any prem strategy on their own niche.

Напишано од clovis1122, 31.03.2016 at 15:11

Напишано од Director Aries, 31.03.2016 at 13:24

NOT AS MUCH as something like IF or DS

But every strategy have its boosts and Nerf. In fact, PD is one of the most (if not the most) played strategy on 3v3 meta game due to its all-around conditions. And is not even premium.

Agreed, PD is free without premium in 3v3, but PD with a General to defend your Capital compared to no general makes a MASSIVE difference, even you know it to be true. Or a Blitz Italy with General can be good as the defense gets countered, but without it can be very hard to defend anything.

Premium players have slight advantage to non premium not as you guys try to make it look. One unit buff doesn't make this entire game pay to win. You want to enjoy this slight advantage and other minor privileges? You know what to do. Buy subscription and support the game maintenance along, otherwise stay quiet please. It's getting old to see you people whine about premium being a game breaker. It's always the same minority of players that can't afford or want to pay for premium or received their premium by other players that complain about premium being pay to win. Regardless of what you think this game is still available for you to play whether you paid for premium or not, be thankful for that.

Напишано од Darkmace, 01.04.2016 at 14:37

but PD with a General to defend your Capital compared to no general makes a MASSIVE difference, even you know it to be true.

I'd argue about GW militias on general stack, but yeah the point is that premium strategies have their pros and cons. They can add more variety but they can be countered quite easy with non-prem strategies.

Напишано од Abraham, 01.04.2016 at 14:50

It's always the same minority of players

....

Напишано од Darkmace, 01.04.2016 at 14:37

Agreed, PD is free without premium in 3v3, but PD with a General to defend your Capital compared to no general makes a MASSIVE difference, even you know it to be true. Or a Blitz Italy with General can be good as the defense gets countered, but without it can be very hard to defend anything.

Actually the higher a unit's att/def the less significant additional points are due to how rolls work. With amongst the highest defence stats pd is one of the best strats to play if you dont have a gen. So this is more of a "MASSIVE" exaggeration.

Напишано од clovis1122, 01.04.2016 at 18:24

Напишано од Abraham, 01.04.2016 at 14:50

It's always the same minority of players

.... piss off !

no shit sherlock, look at the number of non prems that visited this thread. If i wanted a gen and didnt want to pay premium id vote that way too.

Напишано од Permamuted, 01.04.2016 at 18:29

no shit sherlock, look at the number of non prems that visited this thread

It's funny because from the 314 players, 163 of them have the golden (prem) symbol. That's more than half.

Not like you would argue about non-prem representing a minority though (like hdrakon).

Напишано од Permamuted, 01.04.2016 at 18:29

I won't question your skill, but you also forget that in CW's other players have General + General Upgrades which allow units to do more damage and gain more HP during roles, so 15Inf with Gen compared to no Gen make do make a MASSIVE difference. Hell there are even expansion you can not do without general. If you like we can test 50 non general infantry getting attacked by 30 tanks with general vs 50 General Infantry getting attack by 30 general and get an accurate ratio. I assume you won't take that offer since we both know which one will win.

Since I don't give a single shit about what you think clovis, I will not show courtesy and explain to you lifeless Haitian immigrant that live in Dominican Republic, what I meant by minority in the context I used it for.

Напишано од Abraham, 01.04.2016 at 18:59

Since I don't give a single shit about what you think clovis, I will not show courtesy and explain to you lifeless Haitian immigrant that live in Dominican Republic, what I meant by minority in the context I used it for.

He support Donald trump

Напишано од Htin, 01.04.2016 at 19:01

Напишано од Abraham, 01.04.2016 at 18:59

Since I don't give a single shit about what you think clovis, I will not show courtesy and explain to you lifeless Haitian immigrant that live in Dominican Republic, what I meant by minority in the context I used it for.

He support Donald trump

Hahahahaha, this dude is really special bad kind of special

Напишано од Darkmace, 01.04.2016 at 18:54

Напишано од Permamuted, 01.04.2016 at 18:29

I won't question your skill, but you also forget that in CW's other players have General + General Upgrades which allow units to do more damage and gain more HP during roles, so 15Inf with Gen compared to no Gen make do make a MASSIVE difference. Hell there are even expansion you can not do without general. If you like we can test 50 non general infantry getting attacked by 30 tanks with general vs 50 General Infantry getting attack by 30 general and get an accurate ratio. I assume you won't take that offer since we both know which one will win.

I do not forget i am fully aware of the advantages a general provides. I was merely highlighting that it is not the be all and end all as many of you are making out. Again i dispute the use of the word "massive". If you took away my gen and pit me against another top tier player it would only slightly reduce my chances of beating them.

There are steps you can take if you dont have a gen. Avoid picking close to the other player and heavily contesting their expansion. Pick strategies where the gen isnt as essential. Someone like invisible would be a good guy to make this point. He played competitively without a gen for ages and dominated.

Excellent supporters of this game. You 2 go against it in public saying how unfair is these very fair premium features because of a selfish reason, and you are supposed to be those that want in the best for this game that is why you 2 were made supporters in the first place am I right? Right now it make me wonder if there is a hidden agenda behind all this supporter position. Because if there is cut the act. You 2 will never become mods

Напишано од Abraham, 01.04.2016 at 19:47

Excellent supporters of this game. You 2 go against it in public saying how unfair is these very fair premium features because of a selfish reason, and you are supposed to be those that want in the best for this game that is why you 2 were made supporters in the first place am I right? Right now it make me wonder if there is a hidden agenda behind all this supporter position. Because if there is cut the act. You 2 will never become mods

Yes, supporters should take more example of ex-supporters such as yourself

Here's some more serious thoughts on this thread (I was tired last night).

Despite my shiny gold symbol I don't own a gen because I bought seperate packs. For a while I've been a pretty atrocious player but a couple years ago I was a serious competitive player. At the time I found that in standard settings most of the time the general made no difference at all, and if you were better than someone without a gen then you could beat someone with a gen without too many problems.

However then gen gives greater advantages the more concentrated the opponent can be about their gen stack, and so people would tend to throw big stacks at you to multiply up their advantage against you as much as possible, whereas I tended towards a more dispersed playing style and trying to avoid fighting the opponent's general at all, meaning I tended towards playing blitz so I could fight without actually trying to attack the other persons units (possibly because I'm naturally inclined this way anyway it made it easier for me, idk).
(Also lao, please remember that just because you might not get blitz the way you get other strats it doesn't mean it requires no skill, and that I feel the same way about PD)

Anyway the Point of all this is that I found 5k and 3k progressively harder to succeed against premium players because with a small area and fewer units, there were less important battles, and so the gen could be working against you more of the time. This means I struggled in 5k and found 3k incredibly difficult because almost always the premium player could expand with general (meaning he had significantly more units remaining than I would) and then just cap rush you, and because you lost more units without the general perfect play sometimes couldn't stop them. Admittedly IF would help a lot in those situations but I can't get at that either.

This new general upgrade addding capacity is also going to be strongest in situations where reinforcements are few, because with fewer units having one extra becomes a bigger advantage.. Anyone who knows 5 and 3k play knows how few units it takes to decide a game. So I'm quite worried about how this is going to severely limit non premium players in low funds situations. I could be wrong about this, and indeed strategy has presumably moved on a lot in my inactivity, but these changes do make me glad I'm not playing anymore. However you argue, you have to agree that the gap between prem and non prem just jumped a bit here. Mauzer's right in that it won't matter to those outside competitive play, but I feel like these upgrades are going to make it worse for new players trying to learn how to play competitively. I hope I'm wrong really.

Напишано од AlBoZzZ, 01.04.2016 at 19:59

Напишано од Abraham, 01.04.2016 at 19:47

Excellent supporters of this game. You 2 go against it in public saying how unfair is these very fair premium features because of a selfish reason, and you are supposed to be those that want in the best for this game that is why you 2 were made supporters in the first place am I right? Right now it make me wonder if there is a hidden agenda behind all this supporter position. Because if there is cut the act. You 2 will never become mods

Yes, supporters should take more example of ex-supporters such as yourself

He's just desperate for attention...

Напишано од clovis1122, 01.04.2016 at 20:17

Напишано од AlBoZzZ, 01.04.2016 at 19:59

Напишано од Abraham, 01.04.2016 at 19:47

Excellent supporters of this game. You 2 go against it in public saying how unfair is these very fair premium features because of a selfish reason, and you are supposed to be those that want in the best for this game that is why you 2 were made supporters in the first place am I right? Right now it make me wonder if there is a hidden agenda behind all this supporter position. Because if there is cut the act. You 2 will never become mods

Yes, supporters should take more example of ex-supporters such as yourself

He's just desperate for attention...

hdrakon is not the one spamming off-topic with "muh moslems, evil westerners ignoring muh people"

Напишано од clovis1122, 01.04.2016 at 20:17

Напишано од AlBoZzZ, 01.04.2016 at 19:59

Напишано од Abraham, 01.04.2016 at 19:47

Excellent supporters of this game. You 2 go against it in public saying how unfair is these very fair premium features because of a selfish reason, and you are supposed to be those that want in the best for this game that is why you 2 were made supporters in the first place am I right? Right now it make me wonder if there is a hidden agenda behind all this supporter position. Because if there is cut the act. You 2 will never become mods

Yes, supporters should take more example of ex-supporters such as yourself

He's just desperate for attention...

Shut up, you failed result of an abortion.

Напишано од AlBoZzZ, 01.04.2016 at 19:59

Напишано од Abraham, 01.04.2016 at 19:47

Excellent supporters of this game. You 2 go against it in public saying how unfair is these very fair premium features because of a selfish reason, and you are supposed to be those that want in the best for this game that is why you 2 were made supporters in the first place am I right? Right now it make me wonder if there is a hidden agenda behind all this supporter position. Because if there is cut the act. You 2 will never become mods

Yes, supporters should take more example of ex-supporters such as yourself

I logged on atwar and saw your name, it reminded me to take out the garbage.

Blablabla look at all those people that havent even played the game for a long time without generals how generals are not OP and not an advantage over no generals. Ofc there are people who are good without the generals but they might be GOD with it. It is a simple fact the general is a way to big of a difference of a game that supposed to be no pay2win game.

My elo was like 950 when I was rank 9, because I was nob and didn't have general, but when I got premium, my elo surged.

Upgrades in general are unfavorable for low ranks. General upgrades are unfavorable for non premuim players. The more upgrades, the more disadvantage these players have to confront.

Напишано од Kilikian ARM, 26.03.2016 at 16:39

Get a premium

not everyone is as rich as you

This whole game is unfair for non premium users