Ds Nerf

Напишано од Witch-Doctor, 30.03.2017 at 13:38

People need to stop bitching at change because it's good to have something new every once in a while.

Jesus, please no. The answer to the stagnation is not to fuss everything up. Rather than messing with it the focus should'be on the weak strategies.

Напишано од Witch-Doctor, 30.03.2017 at 13:38

Infact the expansions and gameplay for most strats have been mostly the same.

Напишано од Witch-Doctor, 30.03.2017 at 13:38

The only thing that changed is the meta as people discover new expansions, more effective rushes, etc....

This true however. Why do you want to Nerf DS (based on a damm single country) then, knowing that it's a matter of time since someone eventually develop an effective counter to it?

The reason about why we're developing new tricks slowly obey the player's stagnation that the game had. The average skill level had also been reduced. So there's less innovation and we still see the same so-2015 tactics applied in the nowadays gameplay. The DS boost itself was applied on 2015 yet it took 2 years since the players "discovered new expansions, more effective rushes, etc..." with it.

In contrast, the scenario side which lacks of the map editor had a better development. Some people actually tried to innovate there.

But hey that only applies to a single map. And unlike some truly game-breaking changes such as the NC capacity boost it doesn't expand anywhere outside of an already overpowered country (Ukraine) and some other troll countries (Poland). You'd still have better options for Spain, Italy....

World-speaking it is not good outside of North America 5k (Maybe???) and close-Eastern Asia fights (NK, Taiwan....). DS is almost non-existent in scenarios and very few custom maps offers support for it anyway.

Напишано од Witch-Doctor, 30.03.2017 at 13:38

the admins arent spending their time debating strat changes, the players are and they only listen to the conclusions of our discussion.

That only works when the discussion was inclusive and every player's stance was respected and considered.

Cthulhu's recent strategy thread and tophat's strategy threads are a good example of this.

Напишано од clovis1122, 31.03.2017 at 16:40

Напишано од Witch-Doctor, 30.03.2017 at 13:38

People need to stop bitching at change because it's good to have something new every once in a while.

Jesus, please no. The answer to the stagnation is not to fuss everything up. Rather than messing with it the focus should'be on the weak strategies.

Напишано од Witch-Doctor, 30.03.2017 at 13:38

Infact the expansions and gameplay for most strats have been mostly the same.

Напишано од Witch-Doctor, 30.03.2017 at 13:38

The only thing that changed is the meta as people discover new expansions, more effective rushes, etc....

This true however. Why do you want to Nerf DS (based on a damm single country) then, knowing that it's a matter of time since someone eventually develop an effective counter to it?

The reason about why we're developing new tricks slowly obey the player's stagnation that the game had. The average skill level had also been reduced. So there's less innovation and we still see the same so-2015 tactics applied in the nowadays gameplay. The DS boost itself was applied on 2015 yet it took 2 years since the players "discovered new expansions, more effective rushes, etc..." with it.

In contrast, the scenario side which lacks of the map editor had a better development. Some people actually tried to innovate there.

But hey that only applies to a single map. And unlike some truly game-breaking changes such as the NC capacity boost it doesn't expand anywhere outside of an already overpowered country (Ukraine) and some other troll countries (Poland). You'd still have better options for Spain, Italy....

World-speaking it is not good outside of North America 5k (Maybe???) and close-Eastern Asia fights (NK, Taiwan....). DS is almost non-existent in scenarios and very few custom maps offers support for it anyway.

Напишано од Witch-Doctor, 30.03.2017 at 13:38

the admins arent spending their time debating strat changes, the players are and they only listen to the conclusions of our discussion.

That only works when the discussion was inclusive and every player's stance was respected and considered.

Cthulhu's recent strategy thread and tophat's strategy threads are a good example of this.

Duel me turk versus ukr and I'll show you how fun it is to try to beat ds ukr.

Напишано од Witch-Doctor, 31.03.2017 at 19:05

Duel me turk versus ukr and I'll show you how fun it is to try to beat ds ukr.

The point was about DS having a very reduced niche. How about:

Напишано од clovis1122, 31.03.2017 at 16:40

World-speaking it is not good outside of North America 5k (Maybe???) and close-Eastern Asia fights (NK, Taiwan....). DS is almost non-existent in scenarios and very few custom maps offers support for it anyway.

- LA duel (any settings)
- Laochra's Eurasia (Eu vs Asia, any settings)
- Africa duel (any settings)
- Endsieg, ww1, any scenario without helicopters.
- Middle earth or any custom map without helicopters.

Reduced niche? it dominates small to medium maps and while not the best, isn't too bad in world.

Напишано од Xenosapien, 31.03.2017 at 19:31

and while not the best, isn't too bad in world.

Lets duel in Laochra's Eurasia, I'll go HW you go DS....

EDIT: Seriously, even IF would outperform DS.

Напишано од clovis1122, 31.03.2017 at 19:44

Напишано од Xenosapien, 31.03.2017 at 19:31

and while not the best, isn't too bad in world.

Lets duel in Laochra's Eurasia, I'll go HW you go DS....

EDIT: Seriously, even IF would outperform DS.

Duel isn't answer to everything. And no I'm not playing a long boring game just to prove a point, hw isn't that bad in world either.

Напишано од Xenosapien, 31.03.2017 at 19:46

Напишано од clovis1122, 31.03.2017 at 19:44

Напишано од Xenosapien, 31.03.2017 at 19:31

and while not the best, isn't too bad in world.

Lets duel in Laochra's Eurasia, I'll go HW you go DS....

EDIT: Seriously, even IF would outperform DS.

Duel isn't answer to everything. And no I'm not playing a long boring game just to prove a point, hw isn't that bad in world either.

Which strategies do you define as "bad".... I'd pick any of theses (bar blitz) and still outperform any good DS player.

...But what do you expect from a short-range strategy.

Напишано од clovis1122, 31.03.2017 at 19:53

Напишано од Xenosapien, 31.03.2017 at 19:46

Напишано од clovis1122, 31.03.2017 at 19:44

Напишано од Xenosapien, 31.03.2017 at 19:31

and while not the best, isn't too bad in world.

Lets duel in Laochra's Eurasia, I'll go HW you go DS....

EDIT: Seriously, even IF would outperform DS.

Duel isn't answer to everything. And no I'm not playing a long boring game just to prove a point, hw isn't that bad in world either.

Which strategies do you define as "bad".... I'd pick any of theses (bar blitz) and still outperform any good DS player.

...But what do you expect from a short-range strategy.

I would take your challenge
If i knew how to play ds...
Or cared about the game

Remove Helicopters.

This game is dead..admins are married and have a child..and you guys arguing about a strategy

Напишано од clovis1122, 31.03.2017 at 19:44

Напишано од Xenosapien, 31.03.2017 at 19:31

and while not the best, isn't too bad in world.

Lets duel in Laochra's Eurasia, I'll go HW you go DS....

EDIT: Seriously, even IF would outperform DS.

well duh, its a midrange and shortrange strat and is superior to all the others in that area providing the right picks are around so it has enough starting cash. It is even good on africa. Duels do little to determine strat balance. When are you going to get that into your thick skull. Heres a few ideas for you.

Go to africa and do the math of what happens if a player picks near you and ds rushes your gw/imp expansion. Then test what ds' lategame is like on that setting. Notbad huh? Then go to ukraine and optimally expand to t5 with ds gw sm pd gc lb, blitz and gw. Since i know how much you hate eu then go to destoria and repeat the same test with laochrastan or silverdrakia. Check income, land taken, unit count and unit prod. Then come back to me and tell me ds isnt op. Blitz admittedly might match ds on those criteria, however youre dealing with weaker units(but more range yea). I've done these tests with ukraine. I bet theyll be the same on destoria. Why wouldnt they be.

Put your energy towards that, rather than stupid duels where anything can happen and nothing useful is brought to the table. Ds will lose on big maps vs most strats? no shit sherlock.

Напишано од Permamuted, 31.03.2017 at 23:37

Напишано од clovis1122, 31.03.2017 at 19:44

Напишано од Xenosapien, 31.03.2017 at 19:31

and while not the best, isn't too bad in world.

Lets duel in Laochra's Eurasia, I'll go HW you go DS....

EDIT: Seriously, even IF would outperform DS.

well duh, its a midrange and shortrange strat and is superior to all the others in that area providing the right picks are around so it has enough starting cash. It is even good on africa. Duels do little to determine strat balance. When are you going to get that into your thick skull. Heres a few ideas for you.

Go to africa and do the math of what happens if a player picks near you and ds rushes your gw/imp expansion. Then test what ds' lategame is like on that setting. Notbad huh? Then go to ukraine and optimally expand to t5 with ds gw sm pd gc lb, blitz and gw. Since i know how much you hate eu then go to destoria and repeat the same test with laochrastan or silverdrakia. Check income, land taken, unit count and unit prod. Then come back to me and tell me ds isnt op. Blitz admittedly might match ds on those criteria, however youre dealing with weaker units(but more range yea). I've done these tests with ukraine. I bet theyll be the same on destoria. Why wouldnt they be.

Put your energy towards that, rather than stupid duels where anything can happen and nothing useful is brought to the table. Ds will lose on big maps vs most strats? no shit sherlock.

Everything you just said would be solved by increasing the cost of DS helis to 150... but instead of listening to that suggestion you berreted me for highlighting a more pressing issue. Just goes to show how arrogant you can be.

Clovis is right. Instead of nerfing a strong strat like DS, buff a weaker strat so it can be countered in ukr vs turk effectively. And if you're then left with two OP strats, buff a third and a fourth, stronger strats make the game more fun. Not everyone wants to play competitive eu every time they log on. And AW is not a purely skill based game, the sooner you get that into your "thick skull" the sooner you'll lighten up and accept AW for what it is... a game!

Напишано од Phoenix, 01.04.2017 at 02:01

Everything you just said would be solved by increasing the cost of DS helis to 150... but instead of listening to that suggestion you berreted me for highlighting a more pressing issue. Just goes to show how arrogant you can be.

Clovis is right. Instead of nerfing a strong strat like DS, buff a weaker strat so it can be countered in ukr vs turk effectively. And if you're then left with two OP strats, buff a third and a fourth, stronger strats make the game more fun. Not everyone wants to play competitive eu every time they log on. And AW is not a purely skill based game, the sooner you get that into your "thick skull" the sooner you'll lighten up and accept AW for what it is... a game!

I have 0 patience for stupidity anymore. That ds nerf would sure solve the problem cause it would render ds useless. Besides nobody in the thread made that suggestion for me to be arrogant in ignoring it. You deserve to be berated.

Buff a weaker strat like what, pd? Just because of ukraine?Then pd supremacy across all settings and niches? Or how about imperialist, a cheap strat for not only every default map/unit setting but also op on every scenario? But wait isn't fun subjective? What about the people who don't enjoy the op strats? The alterations to the strategies have done nothing to alter their gameplay as it was originally intended. I even went ahead to took on board hw boost suggestions because i know people enjoy the strategy even though i believe it to be competitively useless. And you come here and accuse me of ruining the fun of the game for people? Something that has nothing to do with these tweaks but our awol admins. Something only like 50 players in the community notice or even are affected by.

Oh look i am repeating myself. Apparently explaining this 3 times is not enough for phoenix. Again, stop posting trash in my threads. Thanks. Future posts from you will be ignored until they start containing useful content.

Напишано од Permamuted, 01.04.2017 at 08:08

Напишано од Phoenix, 01.04.2017 at 02:01

Everything you just said would be solved by increasing the cost of DS helis to 150... but instead of listening to that suggestion you berreted me for highlighting a more pressing issue. Just goes to show how arrogant you can be.

Clovis is right. Instead of nerfing a strong strat like DS, buff a weaker strat so it can be countered in ukr vs turk effectively. And if you're then left with two OP strats, buff a third and a fourth, stronger strats make the game more fun. Not everyone wants to play competitive eu every time they log on. And AW is not a purely skill based game, the sooner you get that into your "thick skull" the sooner you'll lighten up and accept AW for what it is... a game!

I have 0 patience for stupidity anymore. That ds nerf would sure solve the problem cause it would render ds useless. Besides nobody in the thread made that suggestion for me to be arrogant in ignoring it. You deserve to be berated.

Buff a weaker strat like what, pd? Just because of ukraine?Then pd supremacy across all settings and niches? Or how about imperialist, a cheap strat for not only every default map/unit setting but also op on every scenario? But wait isn't fun subjective? What about the people who don't enjoy the op strats? The alterations to the strategies have done nothing to alter their gameplay as it was originally intended. I even went ahead to took on board hw boost suggestions because i....

"I, I, I, I I, me and my opinion is better than everyone elses".

Give pd a price drop on anti air, thats all it needs.

The fact ukraine is so god damn cheap is a flaw of the eu map, yet you base every decision on strat changes around it...

150 for DS helis wouldnt kill it, it would force players to use more marines, you donkey.

Just fuckin nerf it already before asking this toxic community and that's all. gG

Напишано од Khal.eesi, 30.03.2017 at 10:38

Напишано од Waffel, 30.03.2017 at 10:14

Напишано од Permamuted, 30.03.2017 at 10:14

No waffel, just no.

Xaxaxaxax

These nerfs/boosts are just the results of things that had gone way above people's heads

Напишано од Phoenix, 01.04.2017 at 08:23

The fact ukraine is so god damn cheap is a flaw of the eu map, yet you base every decision on strat changes around it...

It's pointless. This has been said so many times that I don't even bother. I do also wonder how many players has lao tricked into believing that Eu+ is a godness.

Напишано од Permamuted, 10.02.2017 at 09:12

Eu+ is favoured because it is the most diverse and yes balanced map we have. The entire community focused upon developing it for 2 years when the default map was all they had and nothing has matched it to this day. No other setting can boast a niche for all the strats or the range of incomes and city densities included.

Don't take me or any other player with deep knowledge about the game who had said otherwise. Take Ivan's words:

Наводници:

Hi. Crow never passed your questions to me, that's why I didn't answer them.

6. We're aware of the Europe+ popularity, but don't have any strong preference towards it. It was just another preset for us that just happened to become more popular than others, that's all there is to it. As for balancing, it's true that most of our testing was done in Europe, as it's the easiest region to test in - but we didn't balance it specifically, rather just adjusting population, GDP and game numbers correlation for the whole world.

Напишано од Xenosapien, 31.03.2017 at 19:46

Duel isn't answer to everything.

You'd rather paste some wrong facts into a good-looking paper and still convince some players that they're true.

Duels on the other hand, makes things more practical. It's the ground to prove what you're arguing for. Everybody can come here i.e say how DS is amazing for late-game Africa duels, even though that is pretty distant from the reality.

But yeah I had an Eurasia duel with aqo AKKA Witch-Doctor. He tried to let me pick first so he could DS-Troll me later on, and when he realized that he couldn't (because I was Ukraine) he went Turkey with another strategy. See the implications?

... DS sucks on long-range fights.
... There's no 'good-enough' country to play DS in 1vs1 against Ukraine, or at least there are better choices.

For godsake, just leave the strategy as it is.

Напишано од clovis1122, 01.04.2017 at 08:56

It's pointless. This has been said so many times that I don't even bother. I do also wonder how many players has lao tricked into believing that Eu+ is a godness.

You'd rather paste some wrong facts into a good-looking paper and still convince some players that they're true.

Duels on the other hand, makes things more practical. It's the ground to prove what you're arguing for. Everybody can come here i.e say how DS is amazing for late-game Africa duels, even though that is pretty distant from the reality.

But yeah I had an Eurasia duel with aqo AKKA Witch-Doctor. He tried to let me pick first so he could DS-Troll me later on, and when he realized that he couldn't (because I was Ukraine) he went Turkey with another strategy. See the implications?

... DS sucks on long-range fights.
... There's no 'good-enough' country to play DS in 1vs1 against Ukraine, or at least there are better choices.

For godsake, just leave the strategy as it is.

I really wish you would dedicate your time to try and work with me rather than against me. You could be very helpful if you wanted to. Instead you spend all your time filling my threads with posts trying to discredit me, with screenshots of times i was proved wrong and boastings about duels you won.

Case in point above i haven't tried to trick anyone into believing that "eu+ is a godness" as you phrased it. What i said in the quote you used is a long known fact that was described by the likes of vril, tophats and many others even before i joined this game. A fact that has not changed. Instead you quote Ivan who has admitted he knows little about the meta and acts based off the conclusions of the communities discussions. It is obviously you who is trying to trick people. But why? Because you don't like me? Because you hate the competitive community?

It is so fucking frustrating and disappointing. Then there's people like tirpitz coming to the forums calling me the childish and arrogant one because i don't listen to clovis who has so much game knowlege. All the while clovis makes posts like this and ignores my points. It is not like this is anything new, he has been doing it for years.

Напишано од Permamuted, 01.04.2017 at 09:26

-

The reason about why I didn't directly addressed any of your points was because we've already had this type of discussion long ago. You did not addressed my concerns there, not here.

You could, however, have some credits if you at least had the decency to go and test what you've state here. Go have Africa, LA, Eu vs Asia duels as DS and post the results here. You could also try to play DS UK, DS Germany, if you want to proof that DS Ukraine isn't the problem here (we already know how strong it is). Practical proof is a lot stronger than a good-looking theory.

I'm always open to change my stance and to cooperate with anyone. Whenever you grave practical proof I did grave you credits. If you success at doing the above, you'd probably convince me and another group of players about the dangers of DS on it's current status.

But if instead, you join a tournament claiming how Blitz Ukraine is OP just to be shamefully defeated.... what do you expect?

Looking forward to see your results (if you do even care...).

P.S: Funny to see how you immediately disqualify whoever disagrees with you... Suddenly chess's experience is pretty old and now Ivan knows nothing about the game.... heh.

Напишано од clovis1122, 01.04.2017 at 09:52

Напишано од Permamuted, 01.04.2017 at 09:26

-

The reason about why I didn't directly addressed any of your points was because we've already had this type of discussion long ago. You did not addressed my concerns there, not here.

You could, however, have some credits if you at least had the decency to go and test what you've state here. Go have Africa, LA, Eu vs Asia duels as DS and post the results here. You could also try to play DS UK, DS Germany, if you want to proof that DS Ukraine isn't the problem here (we already know how strong it is). Practical proof is a lot stronger than a good-looking theory.

I'm always open to change my stance and to cooperate with anyone. Whenever you grave practical proof I did grave you credits. If you success at doing the above, you'd probably convince me and another group of players about the dangers of DS on it's current status.

But if instead, you join a tournament claiming how Blitz Ukraine is OP just to be shamefully defeated.... what do you expect?

Looking forward to see your results (if you do even care...).

What concerns did i not address? If there were concerns i ignored it might have been due to your attitude at the time. But you seem to be trying to be reasonable here so i will make one last effort.

I have tested what i stated here and encountered it in practice. I encouraged you to perform similar tests, something that would require a lot of effort on your part but you ignored me. Ds in its' current form outproduces and out expands every other midrange strat. I want you to see this for yourself. Ds uk and germany are bad you say? Well obviously, why are you making that point?

I can go and perform the ds tests i encouraged you to make on destoria if you want? It is a lot of work but i want you to work with me not against me so i am willing to put in the effort. In my original post i predicted people would state this nerf was just about ukraine. It wasn't just a joke. You make this accusation every time even though its not true. As i have explained before eu+ provides an excellent indicatior due to how diverse the map is. However it is just that, an indicator. You cannot determine strat balance purely off that map. I don't need to explain to you why i am sure. And i would have thought that from previous strat changes it is obvious that is not what we do.

See this is it, you keep going on about this loss with blitz ukraine. You are more interested in discrediting me rather addressing my points. Yes i lost with blitz ukr. But this is a game where 1 unit can tb 40. Where you can send 8 sm bombers 3 inf at an 8 infantry neutral and win with 6 bombers left 1 day, and lose completely on another. I beat syrian with the current form of ra italy in a duel. Does that make ra op? I beat critical with the current form of blitz italy. Does that make blitz op? Blitz was nerfed because of its capabilities and versatility. This was all explained at the time but you never accepted it so i don't know if that will change.

Now do you want me to perform these tests? It will be my olive branch to you. I will hop onto destoria and take laochrastan and optimally expand with each midrange strat to t5 and post the results.

I should also point out that i never claimed ds on africa was "amazing" as you put it. It is decent because gw and imp are peoples go to strats on this setting. imps t1 expansion contesting stats with 50:50 tank/inf mix and a gen are 8:7. Ds gets 8:6 but with the - 2 inf defence on the enemy infantry. Gw is 7:5. Ds rapes both. This was fine before but now with 3 range militia and 5 defence it has somewhat of a lategame now. It is pretty cancerous.

Напишано од Permamuted, 01.04.2017 at 10:22

What concerns did i not address? If there were concerns i ignored it might have been due to your attitude at the time.

Your attitude is amazing Lao... People have to listen to everything you say because you spend so much time coming up with ways to refine game play, everyone else' view points suck and are totally intolerable, so their input doesn't matter.

Напишано од clovis1122, 01.04.2017 at 08:56

... There's no 'good-enough' country to play DS in 1vs1 against Ukraine, or at least there are better choices.

That's the problem. Ukr can use the overpowered DS strat and other picks near it cant do the same. If both turk and ukr can use ds, then there would be no problem.

Напишано од Witch-Doctor, 01.04.2017 at 12:29

Напишано од clovis1122, 01.04.2017 at 08:56

... There's no 'good-enough' country to play DS in 1vs1 against Ukraine, or at least there are better choices.

That's the problem. Ukr can use the overpowered DS strat and other picks near it cant do the same. If both turk and ukr can use ds, then there would be no problem.

This is such a weird logic. By that logic you could also say GC is unbalanced, SM is also unbalanced, LB is also unbalanced and any other strat besides imp/pd/ (if? idk lol.., all basic strategy for turkey).

DS is known for its cheap-priced countries with its first couple of turns with fully availability to send much helis (much as in equal to the neutral troop amounts) DS used to be played as SM in '12/13/14, ( I know this, because DS was my first actual strategy I played on UKR) (I would at the time win alot of games with it, but thats another case). So saying that countries who cannot pick the same strategy and play as well as the one with that strategy is not really a good way to balance strategies at all..

I dont see the problem with DS? It didn't need boost in the first place, thats clearly obvious, but thats what happends with any strategy that does not fit in to the playstyle of this 'general strats only'-community, the strategy needed to get played more, and that is what happened, so be happy instead of wanting to nerf any strategy after they rise eery time. Making DS end up like blitz and RA is just plane stupid, we don't have any other strategies left in the end besides PD/imp..?

Delete the militia deffense if you think that would work, I think it wont have much of an impact anyways.

Напишано од Witch-Doctor, 01.04.2017 at 12:29

Напишано од clovis1122, 01.04.2017 at 08:56

... There's no 'good-enough' country to play DS in 1vs1 against Ukraine, or at least there are better choices.

That's the problem. Ukr can use the overpowered DS strat and other picks near it cant do the same. If both turk and ukr can use ds, then there would be no problem.

Also, what about poland DS? That could be pretty op too.., or Belarus DS :p.

Напишано од Waffel, 01.04.2017 at 12:57

Напишано од Witch-Doctor, 01.04.2017 at 12:29

Напишано од clovis1122, 01.04.2017 at 08:56

... There's no 'good-enough' country to play DS in 1vs1 against Ukraine, or at least there are better choices.

That's the problem. Ukr can use the overpowered DS strat and other picks near it cant do the same. If both turk and ukr can use ds, then there would be no problem.

This is such a weird logic. By that logic you could also say GC is unbalanced, SM is also unbalanced, LB is also unbalanced and any other strat besides imp/pd/ (if? idk lol.., all basic strategy for turkey).

DS is known for its cheap-priced countries with its first couple of turns with fully availability to send much helis (much as in equal to the neutral troop amounts) DS used to be played as SM in '12/13/14, ( I know this, because DS was my first actual strategy I played on UKR) (I would at the time win alot of games with it, but thats another case). So saying that countries who cannot pick the same strategy and play as well as the one with that strategy is not really a good way to balance strategies at all..

I dont see the problem with DS? It didn't need boost in the first place, thats clearly obvious, but thats what happends with any strategy that does not fit in to the playstyle of this 'general strats only'-community, the strategy needed to get played more, and that is what happened, so be happy instead of wanting to nerf any strategy after they rise eery time. Making DS end up like blitz and RA is just plane stupid, we don't have any other strategies left in the end besides PD/imp..?

Delete the militia deffense if you think that would work, I think it wont have much of an impact anyways.

1) GC SM and LB are not unbalanced. So this comparison will not work for them.

2) DS is overpowered and only ukr can use it effectively againsts it's neighbors. ie. You cant go ds turk or ds poland to counter effectively.

Напишано од Witch-Doctor, 01.04.2017 at 13:04

Напишано од Waffel, 01.04.2017 at 12:57

Напишано од Witch-Doctor, 01.04.2017 at 12:29

Напишано од clovis1122, 01.04.2017 at 08:56

... There's no 'good-enough' country to play DS in 1vs1 against Ukraine, or at least there are better choices.

That's the problem. Ukr can use the overpowered DS strat and other picks near it cant do the same. If both turk and ukr can use ds, then there would be no problem.

This is such a weird logic. By that logic you could also say GC is unbalanced, SM is also unbalanced, LB is also unbalanced and any other strat besides imp/pd/ (if? idk lol.., all basic strategy for turkey).

DS is known for its cheap-priced countries with its first couple of turns with fully availability to send much helis (much as in equal to the neutral troop amounts) DS used to be played as SM in '12/13/14, ( I know this, because DS was my first actual strategy I played on UKR) (I would at the time win alot of games with it, but thats another case). So saying that countries who cannot pick the same strategy and play as well as the one with that strategy is not really a good way to balance strategies at all..

I dont see the problem with DS? It didn't need boost in the first place, thats clearly obvious, but thats what happends with any strategy that does not fit in to the playstyle of this 'general strats only'-community, the strategy needed to get played more, and that is what happened, so be happy instead of wanting to nerf any strategy after they rise eery time. Making DS end up like blitz and RA is just plane stupid, we don't have any other strategies left in the end besides PD/imp..?

Delete the militia deffense if you think that would work, I think it wont have much of an impact anyways.

1) GC SM and LB are not unbalanced. So this comparison will not work for them.

2) DS is overpowered and only ukr can use it effectively againsts it's neighbors. ie. You cant go ds turk or ds poland to counter effectively.

But to counter effectively you dont need the same strats? I never play GC to counter a GC player? Or NC to counter a NC player or etc. Ofc GW/imp/pd might work but those are really strategies you can use on almost every country. Thats the fun about those different strategies, they aren't meant to work on EVERY country, ofcourse Ukr might have an advantage as DS vs DS poland or DS belarus, but I am 99% sure there is a posibility to play vs a DS ukr in 3v3 or 1v1 or worldgame.

Though, these strategies dont need europe/1v1/3v3/cw's to be balanced, the strategies are a whole for the WHOLE game, so also scenarios/maps/worldgames etc.
Why does the strat has to be compared on ukr?

Напишано од Waffel, 01.04.2017 at 13:09

Напишано од Witch-Doctor, 01.04.2017 at 13:04

Напишано од Waffel, 01.04.2017 at 12:57

Напишано од Witch-Doctor, 01.04.2017 at 12:29

Напишано од clovis1122, 01.04.2017 at 08:56

... There's no 'good-enough' country to play DS in 1vs1 against Ukraine, or at least there are better choices.

That's the problem. Ukr can use the overpowered DS strat and other picks near it cant do the same. If both turk and ukr can use ds, then there would be no problem.

This is such a weird logic. By that logic you could also say GC is unbalanced, SM is also unbalanced, LB is also unbalanced and any other strat besides imp/pd/ (if? idk lol.., all basic strategy for turkey).

DS is known for its cheap-priced countries with its first couple of turns with fully availability to send much helis (much as in equal to the neutral troop amounts) DS used to be played as SM in '12/13/14, ( I know this, because DS was my first actual strategy I played on UKR) (I would at the time win alot of games with it, but thats another case). So saying that countries who cannot pick the same strategy and play as well as the one with that strategy is not really a good way to balance strategies at all..

I dont see the problem with DS? It didn't need boost in the first place, thats clearly obvious, but thats what happends with any strategy that does not fit in to the playstyle of this 'general strats only'-community, the strategy needed to get played more, and that is what happened, so be happy instead of wanting to nerf any strategy after they rise eery time. Making DS end up like blitz and RA is just plane stupid, we don't have any other strategies left in the end besides PD/imp..?

Delete the militia deffense if you think that would work, I think it wont have much of an impact anyways.

1) GC SM and LB are not unbalanced. So this comparison will not work for them.

2) DS is overpowered and only ukr can use it effectively againsts it's neighbors. ie. You cant go ds turk or ds poland to counter effectively.

But to counter effectively you dont need the same strats? I never play GC to counter a GC player? Or NC to counter a NC player or etc. Ofc GW/imp/pd might work but those are really strategies you can use on almost every country. Thats the fun about those different strategies, they aren't meant to work on EVERY country, ofcourse Ukr might have an advantage as DS vs DS poland or DS belarus, but I am 99% sure there is a posibility to play vs a DS ukr in 3v3 or 1v1 or worldgame.

Though, these strategies dont need europe/1v1/3v3/cw's to be balanced, the strategies are a whole for the WHOLE game, so also scenarios/maps/worldgames etc.
Why does the strat has to be compared on ukr?

How would you counter ds ukr with turk, please explain.

Напишано од Witch-Doctor, 01.04.2017 at 13:39

How would you counter ds ukr with turk, please explain.

But is this the question you should ask? Perhaps it is hard to counter it, but really, you guys are talking about DS as it is only used on ukr? DS is played on spain also, on italy i've seen it plenty of times too, on serbia, poland, any pretty cheap country actually. I find it weird u guys base the strategy DS as ukraine as its patient zero.

How I would counter DS ukr with turk is I think like mostly other strategies, besides GW or imp, is to kill its economy and survive his rushes (idk if AA's are working against heli's, but if so, I would use them).

But yeah, I am not the right person to come up with this, all I am saying is u guys are using ukr as basis, which is not really a thing to do when it comes down to BALANCING something.

Напишано од Waffel, 01.04.2017 at 13:50

Напишано од Witch-Doctor, 01.04.2017 at 13:39

How would you counter ds ukr with turk, please explain.

But yeah, I am not the right person to come up with this, all I am saying is u guys are using ukr as basis, which is not really a thing to do when it comes down to BALANCING something.

If one country beats every single other pick on the map, then yes it is worth balancing it based on it.