You are doing it wrong

Наводници:

I'm not quite sure what your complaining about. Me and prom switching names? Changing our names once or twice? this is hardly abuse so you are needlessly creating an issue out of nothing. Why do you act like your confused, mods are regular players with added responsibilities, if we want to change our names once and a while we can do so as we please.

In regards to removing messages, like gow posted, he asked me to remove a wc, in which I did so.

@Martell if your message was removed it may have been a mistake, sometimes when clearing spam things like that can happen.

I'd remove anyone's wc if they asked me under appropriate circumstances. In fact the other day I removed a wc from clovis in a clan war; so obviously there is no bias because I would do it for anyone. If someone posted an inappropriate message on any channel and it is spotted by a mod then it will be removed, if it was a wc then the person is lucky that it was removed so it saves them from the embarrassment of having it stay up. If the mod considers the players actions as breaking the rules then they will be warned/muted.

Punishments are handed out the same way to anyone, whether you are friends with a mod or not we are objective and deal with everyone the same.

You and Prometheus switched names 4 times in a day. Normal plays can change them once a day. Do we want to see you writing 4 messages on global in 1 minute next time? No, we don't. Changing names once in a while isn't same as abusing moderator powers for personal fun.

If you ask any AW player is there excessive removal of messages, you will get positive answer from at least 75%. Why? Because we don't want to be as censored as journalists in countries such as China and North Korea. As long as content is related with AW, doesn't overuse caps lock and isn't insultive or vulgar, it doesn't hurt anyone and doesn't have to be removed.

And don't tell me about fair punishments. I was muted for 24h by a moderator for saying a something in a game, not on global or help. If I told someone else that and he reported me, I'd get 30 minutes mute at max.

And yes, I am not discussing about a specific moderator, I am giving an example of moderator powers abuse. And stop acting as if world was all around GOW. I don't give a fuck about GOW. Nobody does.

What you need on AtWar are Universal moderator standards which all moderators have to follow. That is the solution most of the online games use. Example: You abuse global on purpose 3 times? 1 day mute. And it's always 1 day mute. Moderators shouldn't remove WC messages except on help and global at all, as simple as that. If you are playing in the enemy coalition, you still have seen the message and you can use it for own profit. Selectively removing those messages is bad and should stop.

So in short, all you need here are standards which will always be followed. If you endlessly lock the threads, the issue will stay and you will always have more of such threads. Solve the issue now or never.

So what

No you are,

Go to school, go work, go do something usefull at this time.

Well said!

I have a less extreme opinion, because I myself have personally never been subjected to the moderators abusing their powers, and as such must rely on rumours and forum posts to figure out what's going on. I have no reason to believe that any of these accusations against the moderator team is true. I also have no reason to believe that the moderators' explanations of these incidents are honest.

But what is awfully clear from everything that is going on is that there is a tremendous amount of dissent, justified or otherwise, against the moderator team.

Regardless of whether the moderator abuses of power we read so much about are actual or simply perceived, it needs to be addressed. If there are real abuses of power, then of course these should be investigated and dealt with accordingly by independent authorities. If they are simply perceived, more transparency and explanations in rulings (including, but not limited to, the use of precedents, clearer guidelines regarding punishments in the rules, etc) can drastically improve community confidence in the fairness of moderator actions.

In either case, simply trying to suppress dissent by disallowing anyone to talk about moderator abuses of power is going to make everything worse.

Some dissent is inevitable even in the best-run communities, but what I've seen and heard obviously exceeds that "some dissent." If the community seriously distrusts its public authorities to execute their duties fairly and honestly, then the current system of public authority should be revised as drastically as is necessary to restore that trust.

If that means having to replace half the moderator team, that option should also be considered.

EDIT: Stuff edited for the sake of clarity. Response to quote added.

Напишано од klevis, 23.06.2016 at 04:33

So what

If the community does not trust its public authorities, then that is a severe problem. First, because community distrust often arises from actual or perceived abuse of power, and second, because if the community distrusts the moderator team, then they are going to be less motivated to be honest.

Напишано од International, 23.06.2016 at 04:40

Well said!

I have a less extreme opinion, because I myself have personally never been subjected to the moderators abusing their powers, and as such must rely on rumours and forum posts to figure out what's going on. I have no reason to believe that any of these accusations against the moderator team is true. I also have no reason to believe that the moderators' explanations of these incidents are honest.

But what is awfully clear from everything that is going on is that there is a tremendous amount of dissent, justified or otherwise, against the moderator team. Clearly, this is a grave issue that needs to be addressed.

Some dissent is inevitable even in the best-run communities, but what I've seen and heard obviously exceeds that "some dissent." If the community seriously distrusts its public authorities to execute their duties fairly and honestly, then the current system of public authority should be revised as drastically as is necessary to restore that trust.

If that means having to replace half the moderator team, that option should also be considered.

I say we scrap Mod team and make a new one with a better system of communication and enforcing mod laws.

Напишано од International, 23.06.2016 at 04:40

I haven't seen much complaining about message removal and mod powers abuse before new moderators were added. There was (and still is) VRIL's successor (Meester <3) and some old school players like Laochra, Acquiesce, Desu, Safari etc. There were way less complaints on them than on the new ones.

Only thing that made me mad was thinking zenith was promoted to mod.

Do not do that again please.

Btw, locking previous topic most stupid thing i've ever seen. I didnt see anthing else other than logical discussion. You should stop locking every topic complaining about you.

But... they are following the rules... dont pillory other players

Oh and another thing... I was moderator on an online game for 2 years if not more (1 year was related to bans and mutes, 1 to ticket system where you report bugs and ban appeals). On that and similar games, moderators get permanently banned by Admin or main moderator for sharing moderators information and for abusing moderator powers. If you break basic rules as a moderator, you get demoted and temporarily banned. Then think about the situation on AtWar.

A note for idiots: either come up with arguments or go to Off-topic forum.

Just letting this here to point out that other mods have also changed their names multiple times before. I still think that there wasn't really the need to highlight both Prometheus and Heat Check from the rest...

Both issues probably deserves their discussion, but if you use the wrong method you will just get wrong results.

Напишано од Guest, 23.06.2016 at 03:44

You abuse global on purpose 3 times? 1 day mute. And it's always 1 day mute.

Напишано од clovis1122, 15.02.2016 at 09:28

Anyway, if you do really plan to write rules so they can be appealed by a lawyer or other peson (which I don't think is great for atWar) then you should give a look at DN's rules. They advice you the punishment beforehand, which greatly reduce the "bias" that could happen. Context matters like in all sites just that the punishment can't be arbitrary.

http://forum.duelingnetwork.com/index.php?/cp/7-rules-and-punishments

Напишано од Meester, 15.02.2016 at 09:43

Напишано од clovis1122, 15.02.2016 at 09:28

http://forum.duelingnetwork.com/index.php?/cp/7-rules-and-punishments

This I like I will see what I can do to add it in next time.

Yup we could definitively use to have already written punishments to prevent bias. I'm sure meester added it to his "To Do When Extremely Bored" list.

Напишано од International, 23.06.2016 at 04:40

EDIT: Stuff edited for the sake of clarity. Response to quote added.

Напишано од klevis, 23.06.2016 at 04:33

So what

If the community does not trust its public authorities, then that is a severe problem. First, because community distrust often arises from actual or perceived abuse of power, and second, because if the community distrusts the moderator team, then they are going to be less motivated to be honest.

Agree.

Okey, so we can't change name in a couple days... but mods can. Are you really upset about it? I find it funny and that zenith joke was funny as well! Don't you guys have any sense of humor?

And they deleted a couple messages which were sent in the wrong chat... big deal out of nothing... no one can have a bit of fun here without getting bashed it seems, such nice people

Njab, everything you are saying just seems incredibly pedantic. As to the first point, Heat Check and I changed names, and had already switched back to our original names by the time you had made the post, you seem to just be fishing for some kind of scruples on that front. As to censorship, I can not think of a single example of myself or other mods censoring chat we simply did not like, which does not mean it has not happened, but I have never seen it. For example, I have never once talked with bargain, yet in every CW chat he is rude and trolls me, but I do not remove messages as you suggest, I simply ignore him.

Now you Njab know the rules, to discuss with moderators in private if you have an issue, and if that does not work to speak with other moderators. I know this because you are a seasoned player, as well as I have pr'd you to talk about this. Yet you refuse to engage in a conversation with me or other moderator and simply want to make an issue out of nothing on forums, which is against the rules. I agree about universal standards, and following these standards this thread will be locked because issues with moderators are to be brought up with them, or other mod staff if they are not willing to engage you.

As you your comment "there were less complaints about the old ones" you know as well as everyone here just how false that is....personally I have not received a single complaint about my role as a moderator until you just now, and even then you have refused to talk to me about it but chose to post on forums. This seems personal to you and if you would like to discuss it feel free to pr me or any other moderator.

As to future threads if you want to talk about Mod rules of course go ahead, but calling out individual mods is, and will always be against the rules.