Emperor Alois
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All I see is a bunch of empirefags being salty that either a comp map won, or Adog as a person. A whole plethora of competitive players, mods, and other scenario players are in full support of this map, even enemies are not too proud to declare this map better than theirs. And then there is you. Not a mapmaker. Not a participant. Just a salty, toxic ignorant person angry at the results for no other reason than personal and political grudges.
And you choose to voice your opinion as a fact, on the most demeaning, belittling, disrespectful and toxic way. I see no reason to NOT react on the baseless insults you've thrown around.
What other people? I only see empirefags disagreeing, which ironically doesn't mean shit for this map since it's a comp map. Saying that you put less effort into making your coalition than adog or even me put into that map would be more of a truth than the absolute unbased worthless and absolutely worthless pile of toxic shit comment that he made his map in one day.
Excuse me? HAHAHAHA I am pretty sure you stated, and still are stating, that the vote of staff is not to be trusted and that they somehow all went pro adog for some nepotistic reason. I'd say that's quite the insult for the hard work a lot of people put into this competition.
Insulting without any knowledge of matters can hardly be regarded as critique, and more like the blabbering of a child. If you can however conjure up some arguments based on facts that can make sense while leaving the insulting part out might make it seem that you are criticizing at least, rather than just yelling because a rival won. On top of that if you actually took the time to look beyond your nose, you'd know that Adog spent a lot of time listening to the veteran comp players that actually played his map and had useful tips, instead of an insignificant salty rival clanleader who knows nothing about either competitive or the mapeditor.
And the unbiased insults just keep flowing... Tell us one good reason why 1. The mods should care for anything your toxic ass has to say about this. 2. The mods should change their opinion purely because some non-participating scenario player is not happy with the map winning first place. 3. You are acting like there were no reputable players in the map competition itself. Allow me to enlighten you in the absolute darkness you are struggling to get coherent words out. Tunder participated Martell participated Ejr participated Estus participated Fappino participated And whether you like it or not, Adog is a reputable mapmaker who had lots of influence on multiple genres of maps here, in comparison to you, who has 0 importance outside of scenario. Calling Adog unreputable is just as bitter and toxic as it is absolutely ridiculous. If there were any "reputable" mapmakers missing, it's their fault for not joining the competition. Not exactly the mods nor the participants fault. They got nothing to justify for to you anyway. You are litterally being a child because you let your emotions and personal rivalry with Adog get in the way of all logic, even going so far as to constantly insult both staff and the people that, unlike you, spend a lot of time into this competition.
---- Infinctus Callidas, Decus Aeternum 
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If you want to know I'm the one who solely does this work. All the set up, voting, etc was done by myself. So unless you're calling me biased and rigging, what's the problem here? I've put hours worth of work into this and allowed nearly a week worth of voting- where mods, supporters and even other community leaders (those being part of the Meta Team) were let in to take their time to vote. This is over 30 votes.. I really dont understand the issue here.
----
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The issue here clearly seems to be with him disagreeing with the end result for whatever reason, and thus feels the need to throw around accusations
---- Infinctus Callidas, Decus Aeternum
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Is there a list of maps applied, by the way? Just so we know exactly what Adog's map beat in the first place.
---- Someone Better Than You
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Because they voted and you are insinuating that it is somehow "rigged" and you are questioning their judgement
Your, as EJR put it, destructive criticism is not critique. It is just toxic uninformed opinion. You know you are being unreasonable when the only people who are insulting me is just you and 2 more empire players. Even trystane, who has had a long and conflicting history with me, is willing to put our differences aside when judging our maps.
Literally nobody in the community except you and a few of your cronies disagrees. Most people are calling you out.
----  
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There is but I'll leave it to Alois to disclose that as he's the one who setup the competition so if he wants to divulge the maps then he may.
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 >Reputable mapmaker >Lots of influence on multiple genres
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To speak in a way that doesn't benefit both sides, why we arguing on something that has already happened and most likely is final :/ I do understand both's opinion in regards to the quality of map Adog says but likewise as one member has said earlier -
So with it, as Mods opinion are different than some of us, shouldn't we just learn to just brush it off?
Actually interested of knowing the roster to give respect and commendation to the ones who took their time and participated (as well as to know how crap my map was), Map making with today's map editor is as harsh as it is and made quite a few players give up on big projects due to a simple code error... likewise as I said in the other forums, congratulations for the winners and participants. To close this, pretty sure some are arguing not because of the map anymore but because of something else.
---- Suisei no gotoku arawareta star no genseki, idol Vtuber Hosimati Suisei desu!
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I've never seen scenerio map being won , there are plenty of maps that are made by Dire and that Nedris but all who gets the promotion "competitive"
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And then there's the RP aspect ;-;
---- Suisei no gotoku arawareta star no genseki, idol Vtuber Hosimati Suisei desu!
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My great european war scenario won in 2014, Valetorious rise of macedonia won 1st place in 2019
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what rp the map that needs 20 players and fails on t4-t8
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Gotta include every aspect as per equity no? hahahahah
---- Suisei no gotoku arawareta star no genseki, idol Vtuber Hosimati Suisei desu!
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very funny, but the truth is the promotion just circles around your own coalation/friends
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Also this being added onto what I said previously, 2019's competition(last year's) was won exclusively by scenarios. 1st being Rise of Macedonia scenario, 2nd being Six Days War scenario, 3rd being War of Diadochi
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Well technically this is not true. I'm also a member of that coalition but none of my maps have been promoted or even featured for that matter. The only time I've had a map of mine featured was vietnam war which was done by Aetius when he was moderator which I asked to be removed.
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Whether you like it or not, without Adog's invention and expansion upon vertical trenches you would never have a WW1 like this. As for the other genres, without him, RP would litterally not exist. And these are just the two most obvious things It really shouldn't be this hard to acknowledge the achievements of someone you may not like.
---- Infinctus Callidas, Decus Aeternum
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Vertical trenches are such a basic concept, and im sure that aetius came up with the idea on his own. Also why should i care about RP, its a dead genre. tell me the other non obvious things please
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The fact that you and Empirezz don't even seem to agree to a common consensus of Adog being a reputable cartographer says enough about your personal animosity and the incapability to make any unbiased statement regarding this matter. I put enough effort into reacting and feeding the trolls down here. We've tried reasoning, perhaps ignoring them will do better
---- Infinctus Callidas, Decus Aeternum
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*shrugs* I have no say on this one, frankly because I see no point on this whole fiasco... personally if you ask me, some participant's submissions are better yeah sure but that's because of my own taste and knowing that those 3 maps won gives mo no reason to pursue my argument on it any further. If the whole roster of mods say it's good then great, mad respect for the winners for earning a place. But circle to what I said earlier, has no reason to generate this much toxicity. Pretty sure if we interchange the winners, no matter what anyone does or does not, there will always be an opposition.
---- Suisei no gotoku arawareta star no genseki, idol Vtuber Hosimati Suisei desu!
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Then make something better, it just makes you sound spiteful.
Well, that is just the inevitable outcome of having all the active map makers in the same clan - what did you expect.
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Weird choice to make the Staff vote and not the whole community. Feels like an entire portion of the atwar community was silenced in this competition. And the biais toward competitive maps is obvious in the answers of this thread
---- All rules from my scenarios can be found here : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wKJgMnWWJx1jV7SdFGat692b3SBLv4XLLZw84l4v_wA/edit?tab=t.0
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You realise that were on a schedule right? This isnt just any map competition, there is no time to just allow the community to vote when people are turning in maps at the end of the month. Youd know this if you paid attention to my original post that this competition was specifically for this months map promotion. Obviously getting a community opinion is not an option as it takes too much time. Doing staff voting with some community leaders is much faster and guarenteed no lobbying or rigging. There is no bias towards competitive maps either, estus which was in 3rd is a scenario map. Just because scenarios arent at the top doesnt mean there is bias.. jesus. Get over it, honestly. Literally every time theres something like this the Empire seems to have a problem because one of their people didnt get it and then tell all sorts of lies about them in order to get people to hate them. If you guys believe you can do better, then do it. Until you actually do something instead of making cry posts then please dear god mind your own damn business. (If you really think you can do better in all honesty, I will consider you for supporter status so you have the support you need) PS: Map promotions are purely done by the supporters, so if anything this should have been a supporter only decision. This competition was sort of a experiment to what allowing the community to do this kind of stuff would turn out like, but the more I see this thread the more I want to just stop doing these kinds of things because someone will try to derail it and start flamewars or claim its biased/rigged because their cronies didnt win. And that is exactly what is wrong with this community and what the staff dont want new players seeing.
----
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Why didnt u make it so the players who actualy play the diff maps mapmakers produce actualy vote and not niggaz who are never seen playing anything xD xaxaxa niggaz who just play like 1 map are judging maps for a competition, that shits hilarious xD Nedris should be only vote that matters!
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I'm not upset about who won : i didn't submit a map, and nobody I personally know did. I just understand why some people could be upset by the organization of the competition Maybe you could have made the competition end 1 week earlier, and use that week to make people vote on a thread created for the occasion. You could even limit the right to vote to r6+ and accounts created at least one month ago if you don't want any rigging. Would also have been nice for the players to see all the maps submitted. But perhaps all of this would be too time-consuming for the staff.
I'm not saying you "chose" to rig the competition, but I think the composition of the staff is clearly biased toward competitive maps. I don't know all of you : maybe you guys just don't play a lot, but I rarely see a supporter or a mod playing in the same game as me, and I will actually play everything except competitive. I just looked into the games-history of some of you, and it's mostly CW and duels. And maybe I got some comments (not yours) seen of this thread wrong, but I felt like some of them were basically : "you don't play competitive, you opinion don't matter"
I made one of the most successful map&scenario these last two months, so i'm actually doing something aside from cry posts. Do better than what ? Adog's map, or this competition ? If you are talking about adog's map : I'm not complaining about it, it looks good and may deserve its victory (or may not, since I have no idea of how the maps which are not in top 3 look like). If you are talking about the competition : I guess the way you made this competition is better than nothing. However, i think it would have been more relevant to have the entire community decide which map is the better one and which one they want promoted. It looks like a missed opportunity to me.
What ? Maps promotions are supposed to benefit the community, aren't they ? Would ut not make more sense to promote the community's favorite map, rather than the supporters' favorite map ? I'm pretty sure you are supposed to be at the service of the community.
---- All rules from my scenarios can be found here : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wKJgMnWWJx1jV7SdFGat692b3SBLv4XLLZw84l4v_wA/edit?tab=t.0
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Because a community vote = popularity contest. It boils down to who can get more support not necessarily who crafts the best work. It happened in earlier map contests and is the PRIMARY reason why community votes are done with.
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As ejr said, popularity contest. Nearly a week was given to the staff team to vote, and they took their time to look at the maps and even test them out.
----
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By the way I'd just like to say most of the supporter team isnt compfags, most of them are scenario or RP and have lately played competitive things as they dont have time to play longer games
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Are we ever going to learn what the other maps submitted are or will the top three just remain the victors against an unnamed mass of unknown-quality maps
---- Someone Better Than You
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You are above these popularity contests, right ? One could say that it's still a popularity contest, with smaller scales. But let's give you the benefit of the doubt. It's still only the best crafted work according to 30 people.
---- All rules from my scenarios can be found here : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wKJgMnWWJx1jV7SdFGat692b3SBLv4XLLZw84l4v_wA/edit?tab=t.0
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""""Scenario""""
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I like how you mention me specifically as if I had a hand in this vote, which I didn't. I participated so I couldn't vote if I wanted to, so this comment seems extremely superfluous
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dude that shit is insulting as fuck for mapmakers, the second map its like somebody just cut europe in world map and pasted a handfull of random other shit and called it done xD
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yea no , ur supporter team is not mostly scenario players, else it would be filled with atleast some good known scen players, urs is a mix of rp nabs, clanies u recruited and competetive players xD
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RP's are scenarios though 
---- Lest we forget Moja Bosna Ponosna
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You as "the staff", but ok You still didn't show me how you are all less biased than random players
---- All rules from my scenarios can be found here : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wKJgMnWWJx1jV7SdFGat692b3SBLv4XLLZw84l4v_wA/edit?tab=t.0
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We all know what rpers are and why they have their own term just like scenario players and competetive players do too.
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I can't argue with that, you got a good point.
---- Lest we forget Moja Bosna Ponosna
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It's not a matter of bias, it's how easy it is to manipulate. When you leave open its far more likely to become a popular vote instead of something that's supposed to be analyzing the ins and outs of a map and whether it fulfills its purpose. This thread is a good example of that, most people are judging maps based off looks not the content itself, which is far outweighs the actual visual appeal because the content has more layers to it, whereas looks is very one-dimensional. No one critiquing most of the maps have made comments on whether incomes are appropriate in said maps, whether the expansions make for good gameplay(competitive maps specifically), whether there's potential shortcuts that allows for better expansions, whether city spacing is appropriate. None of these things are considered. This thread is mostly regarding looks and not whether it fulfills it's purpose while maintaining enjoyment. Back to how exactly it becomes a popularity contest. Do you think some new rank 5 named Jimmy who just made his first map before the contest was due will win a map contest that's left up to a community or would someone who has an established reputation in the mapmaking community & who's been at it for longer? Who's the more likely candidate to win in this case? The new guy or the long-term content creator? Also I'll tell you one other thing, people who've not even touched the map editor are much more likely to overlook every detail regarding what makes a map a map. I'm certain most people who've never made a scenario don't even know the fact that the scenario editor has a function that let's you multiply a country's income with a percentage modifier(keep in mind this DOESN'T exist in the map editor, only in the scenario editor). And none would consider how easy such a function like that makes it for balancing incomes in a scenario, one thing scenarios automatically have over regular maps.
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Lmao after looking at all 3 maps and having played basically half of the other maps submitted to the competition i just gotta say.. what in the actual fuck lmao your telling me that taking the fucking base euro map, changing about 5 borders and switching up some unit pictures is not only equivalent to but better then the Pyrrhus Kaiserreich map? like seriously? Pliny is defending the first place Adog map cause he contributed to it so i mean eh his opinion is invalid but after looking at everything everyone has said your saying that this is the communities fault? da fuq is that about, new players saw that the new Kaissereich map was being hosted in global, or the new Bretonnia map or the new this or that but they rarely, and i mean rarely, saw a adog competitive being hosted or whatever the fuck that second map is this is a fucking travesty to the mapmaking community and you all know it, you have new people in mapmaking like Dire and Ned who are out here trying to bring the life back into Atwar when you had the old guard like Pyrrhus and Aetius stop making maps because of BS just like this lmao, this isnt about "empi and his cronies" being salty they didnt win, this is about the fact that yall gave an actual scen in estus map 3rd place as a fucking consolation prize to the entire scen community in atwar which is fucking disgraceful lmao you all basically spit in the face of a solid half of the community and then wonder why they seem to be so "toxic" this coulda been avoided if you had done one competition for maps like Adog and Trystane's, as im sure they put work into it and for those who play the maps of that style i am sure it they were fantastic and then done a separate competition for those maps made by those like Pyrrhus and Dire, if you didnt think you were qualified enough to vote on them you could have had respected people in the community to help you vote on them
---- sirivann (King Louen Leoncoeur): nigga im dwarfs
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I'm working on it. Give it time. Please.
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This is one of the first maps that has genuine criticism hidden between all of the... interesting extra comments, I agree that perhaps there should be two contest done for scenarios and maps. But the problem with this is, it's basically being overseen by Alois by himself. He even stated that he had issues even getting the results out because he's basically running it himself and not only that, also considering how long it takes for all potential judges to actually get their votes out there. Running a map contest on your own is not something easy to do so I think you guys should be cutting Alois a bit more slack. Also I disagree to a degree with the "respected people" part. Respected or not it still doesn't change the fact that some of these "respected" people have never made a map in their life and will generally overlook most of the details regarding a map's development. Obviously this is a problem because of the fact that people will not take into account how easy some things are in the map editor vs scenario editor and vice versa when forming their conclusion.
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Why not just let the comunity vote xD in meantime we need to bash on alois as the mean cunts we are :c
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Dunno about the rest you said but Kaiserrice was not completed within the competition deadline, came out two days after and was a test-phase unbalanced mess at the day of release, and was thus not a competitor, trust me if it was it'd have gotten second place at the least.
---- Someone Better Than You
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Kinda a shame but ye, Kaiserreich is well made
---- Suisei no gotoku arawareta star no genseki, idol Vtuber Hosimati Suisei desu!
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You made really great points, and I forgot about Pyrrhus's map. His should have won uncontested. Scenarios and maps should not be distinguished. If it is true that Kaisserich was not completed until after the latest competition, then his should win in the next competition, unless some other really great map is out there.
---- Happiness = reality - expectations
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all scenerio community would die after hearing rp's are scenerio where shit like happens give me 50k or it's war Lmao ok, very nice lol
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I mostly meant it as a joke, I play both scenarios and RP's after all or at least I use too.
---- Lest we forget Moja Bosna Ponosna
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