More Power to Mapmakers

Напишано од Tundy, 12.01.2015 at 16:59

Напишано од Guest, 12.01.2015 at 10:04

It's like no one is realizing they are bound by rules

Game Behavior
1. Doing anything that interferes with the ability of other users to enjoy playing a game in accordance with its rules, or that materially increases the expense or difficulty of staff in maintaining the game for the enjoyment of all its users is not permitted.

This means you cannot ban someone for any reason you want, as you limit their ability to play even by the map's rules

I would have banned you too if you go and talk shit about my map. As the end, you are welcome to play other maps or make your own.

Напишано од International, 13.01.2015 at 01:58

I personally think (if anyone cares, that is) it is about time that the AtWar rules be rewritten. According to the forum post timestamp, the current rules were written in the 30th of November, 2011. That's three years ago. This game has changed a lot.

A new, well-thought out and complete set of rules and guidelines should stop issues like this from propping up too much, I think.

Напишано од Goblin, 13.01.2015 at 05:36

Напишано од RaulPB, 13.01.2015 at 05:05

Only imagining admins banning from the standard map whoever they don't like is scary.

Read the above posts and stop making this ridicilous comparison.

And stop making this look like map makers want to ban people for some sadistic pleasure of banning without a reason because thats bullshit.

Напишано од Desu, 11.01.2015 at 21:11

Pretty sure he deleted his own thread. If there was reason for moderators to stop the thread, we'd of just locked it, not deleted it. Unless of course there was a bunch of useless comments I did not see after I had posted and another mod acted.

These banlists are not a right. They're merely tools given to you so you can have the peace of mind that you can do something when someone abuses. Grief is caused when someone disagrees with what you've done, and thus moderators will have to mediate. Do not cry because you are not prepared to defend your own claims. Columna Durruti has an adequate answer for the rest.

As I said on the other thread before deletion, these banlists seem to be more trouble than they're worth. Perhaps they should be restricted a bit. Hopefully I'm proven wrong on both counts and people come better prepared when their claims are refuted.

Напишано од Desu, 14.10.2014 at 09:12

Saying "stop cry" is also a terrible way to express yourself.
In this case ''do not cry''

Напишано од Goblin, 13.01.2015 at 05:59

You guys

Напишано од Goblin, 13.01.2015 at 05:59

Have zero argumments against ours, so you replace that with constant questions we already answered

Напишано од Goblin, 13.01.2015 at 05:59

Constant questions we already answered

Напишано од Goblin, 13.01.2015 at 06:22

I gave you the answer above, mods have the final word and it shouldnt be theirs ...if you want to resolve your ban, be a man and speak to the guy who made the map for you to play and work things out, not crying to mods and demanding some "rights" you think you are entitled too.

...and right right "troll baning" scares you? ...but trolls and assholes geting away with insulting a map maker is fine with you.

Напишано од Desu, 12.01.2015 at 23:01

Напишано од Tundy, 12.01.2015 at 22:26

1.- Map makers are guilty until proven innocent (this is what mods are doing, which is bullshit, and this stance has already been proven to be completely wrong)

-snip-

Напишано од Desu, 11.01.2015 at 22:09

I've been repeating myself over and over.

Напишано од Goblin, 13.01.2015 at 04:36

<image>

your own ...no new rule, no new agreement can change retroactively what i payed for.

Напишано од Columna Durruti, 12.01.2015 at 23:31

There are many and you know that. No reason to go into details... some "reasons" given by some respected map-makers:

• Allyfag
  
• NULL
  
• Stinky
  
• You lack the skill to play my maps properly, sorry
  
• Pre-emptive ban for being in the reich
  
• Pre-emptive ban to prevent trolling
  
• My Finger slipped
  
• #Lol
  
• Tried to ally germany as france. Plays tempted rp.

And I could go on...

Напишано од Columna Durruti, 12.01.2015 at 23:31

See Desu's comment.

Напишано од International, 13.01.2015 at 07:27

Напишано од Goblin, 13.01.2015 at 04:36

<image>

your own ...no new rule, no new agreement can change retroactively what i payed for.

Possession is not unlimited. For example, I can't (am legally not allowed to) torture animals I own, because animal protection laws. I can't build skyscrapers with my land and my money, because zoning laws. I hope the point is made: just because you own something doesn't mean you are entitled to exercise perfect control over it.

The map/scenario you made is yours. Congratulations. It must still be used in a way that benefits the AtWar community as a whole.

Напишано од Tundy, 13.01.2015 at 07:36

>tried to ally germany as france
So are you saying its totally ok for nazi germany to ally france in a 1939 map? Lol

Напишано од Tundy, 13.01.2015 at 07:36

I am not going to write a paragraph every time i ban a undesirable person from my maps

Напишано од Tundy, 13.01.2015 at 07:36

Desu takes stance #1, while you never take a side but make it sound like we are in the wrong.

Напишано од Tundy, 13.01.2015 at 07:25

Напишано од Desu, 12.01.2015 at 23:01

Напишано од Tundy, 12.01.2015 at 22:26

1.- Map makers are guilty until proven innocent (this is what mods are doing, which is bullshit, and this stance has already been proven to be completely wrong)

-snip-

10/10 pro politician skills
You literally just repeated "map makers are guilty until proven innocent" with nice words in order to make it look like your comment has value, when in reality it doesn't.

Напишано од Desu, 11.01.2015 at 22:09

I've been repeating myself over and over.

Why should i give you ss at all? Are you the owner of the map?
Oh yeah, you are not.

Напишано од Tundy, 13.01.2015 at 07:38

Напишано од International, 13.01.2015 at 07:27

Напишано од Goblin, 13.01.2015 at 04:36

<image>

your own ...no new rule, no new agreement can change retroactively what i payed for.

Possession is not unlimited. For example, I can't (am legally not allowed to) torture animals I own, because animal protection laws. I can't build skyscrapers with my land and my money, because zoning laws. I hope the point is made: just because you own something doesn't mean you are entitled to exercise perfect control over it.

The map/scenario you made is yours. Congratulations. It must still be used in a way that benefits the AtWar community as a whole.

Maps are not living things, you are allowed to do anything to objects of your private property.

Напишано од Waffel, 13.01.2015 at 06:07

Напишано од Desu, 11.01.2015 at 21:11

Pretty sure he deleted his own thread. If there was reason for moderators to stop the thread, we'd of just locked it, not deleted it. Unless of course there was a bunch of useless comments I did not see after I had posted and another mod acted.

These banlists are not a right. They're merely tools given to you so you can have the peace of mind that you can do something when someone abuses. Grief is caused when someone disagrees with what you've done, and thus moderators will have to mediate. Do not cry because you are not prepared to defend your own claims. Columna Durruti has an adequate answer for the rest.

As I said on the other thread before deletion, these banlists seem to be more trouble than they're worth. Perhaps they should be restricted a bit. Hopefully I'm proven wrong on both counts and people come better prepared when their claims are refuted.

Напишано од Desu, 14.10.2014 at 09:12

Saying "stop cry" is also a terrible way to express yourself.
In this case ''do not cry''

xaxa got you desu

Напишано од Milton Friedman, 13.01.2015 at 09:25

Напишано од Tundy, 13.01.2015 at 07:38

Напишано од International, 13.01.2015 at 07:27

Напишано од Goblin, 13.01.2015 at 04:36

<image>

your own ...no new rule, no new agreement can change retroactively what i payed for.

Possession is not unlimited. For example, I can't (am legally not allowed to) torture animals I own, because animal protection laws. I can't build skyscrapers with my land and my money, because zoning laws. I hope the point is made: just because you own something doesn't mean you are entitled to exercise perfect control over it.

The map/scenario you made is yours. Congratulations. It must still be used in a way that benefits the AtWar community as a whole.

Maps are not living things, you are allowed to do anything to objects of your private property.

Your arguments are based on the illusion that you are making your own stuff on your own property.

Your maps are uploaded to atWar, which makes all of your rights nullified since you don't own atWar.
Its just like if I am taking my phone to a friend's house. It's maybe my phone, but I can only use it, or even bring it, if I am allowed by the host, as it his property. And if I am allowed to, I will have to follow the rules set by the property owner on how I can use it, again since it is his property.

In the same way, your map is hosted on atWar, which means that you will have to follow the rules set by the owners, Ivan and Amok. Now, if you want them to change the rules, that would be ok (even though it would still be a terrible idea), but you are acting like it is your right to ban everyone who isn't a cunt.

So you will have to obey the rules set by the admins, or take your map and gtfo of atWar.

Напишано од Columna Durruti, 12.01.2015 at 21:26

Just a small reminder: banlists were implemented to avoid failed games because of leavers, trolls, wall-fuggers, etc. Not as a particular exercise of power for the sake of personal benefits. It is a tool to ensure that the community can enjoy scenarios and maps without disruption. Just ave a look at the forum posts that led to the implementation of this feature.
Mods were the first to discuss and support critically this tool. So don't tell me to mind my own business!
As Mod and Map-Maker I fully support the implementation of this feature to strengthen the community (as a whole and not the power of a few).

Напишано од Khal.eesi, 13.01.2015 at 10:19

Напишано од Columna Durruti, 12.01.2015 at 21:26

Just a small reminder: banlists were implemented to avoid failed games because of leavers, trolls, wall-fuggers, etc. Not as a particular exercise of power for the sake of personal benefits. It is a tool to ensure that the community can enjoy scenarios and maps without disruption. Just ave a look at the forum posts that led to the implementation of this feature.
Mods were the first to discuss and support critically this tool. So don't tell me to mind my own business!
As Mod and Map-Maker I fully support the implementation of this feature to strengthen the community (as a whole and not the power of a few).

In all seriousness, this.

And to summarize,

A.) As columna stated, i remember the posts that lead to the implementation of banlist, where the following things happened.Map makers were begging to be given a banlist feature.Part of the community and some mods expressed fear and discomfort trusting a feature which could easily be abused, to mapmakers.Mapmakers promised to be fair and explained in a dramatic atmosphere how badly this needed to be done, so the trolls and leavers that ruin their lifes and their scenarios, could be dealt with.The community then voiced its support.The mods took the community s support into consideration and decided to trust them and working with admins, implemented the banlist feature, shortly.

Result : You/some of you (mapmakers) abused the fuck out of your newly acquired power creating a whole lot of unneeded drama that still takes place daily, broken your promises to remain just and fair in your bans and betrayed the mods and community s trust.

B.) Abuse of power is abuse of power, no matter how much you try to sugar coat it,wether it is under supposed rights of ownership or other bullshit like that.I find it hypocrytical how most of you, were crying constantly about mods abusing their power and being biased and not justifying their bans.But now that you are given a taste of power, you are too quick to abuse it yourself and not only that, but you want to be left alone, banning everyone you want without reason.Hypocrisy and double standards much?

I will close my statement, adding a dramatic tone (/add sad violin song)saying that this is why i respect animals more than humans.Because as we already saw from the Stanford prison experiment, most people are/or eventually turn under the right circumstances to pieces of shit, ungratefull , greedy, liars that given even a shred of power they will rush to abuse it, no matter what.We are a shitty species.We are a mistake, we are parasites.We are a fucking virus.

Напишано од KYBL, 13.01.2015 at 10:42

Abuse is minimal, very few people actually ban people they don't like. The ones who doo will be taken out by the market. I already explained this in an economic perspective. It is undesirable to ban too many people from your map.

Moderator abuse and mapmaker "abuse" are two very different things. AtWar doesn't have arbitrary rules where the mod's can do whatever they want, Atwar has a set of rules that the mod's must follow. In this case, they are not following them. Map makers are not required to provide rules, and there are no rules sst by the devs on how we regulate our maps. You can call it abuse, but we are not breaking any rules, and if you really demand such, we can write in our games that you can be banned arbitrarily for any reason.

Humans aren't parasitical viruses, self entitled pricks like the childish fucktards opposing more power to map makers are parasites. You are the ones who demand shit for doing nothing. You are the ones who lay claim to other people's property. So fuck you, and fuck your bullshit.

Напишано од Milton Friedman, 13.01.2015 at 09:25

Your arguments are based on the illusion that you are making your own stuff on your own property.

Your maps are uploaded to atWar, which makes all of your rights nullified since you don't own atWar.
Its just like if I am taking my phone to a friend's house. It's maybe my phone, but I can only use it, or even bring it, if I am allowed by the host, as it his property. And if I am allowed to, I will have to follow the rules set by the property owner on how I can use it, again since it is his property.

Напишано од notserral, 25.07.2014 at 08:03

Hello gentlemen.

With the inclusion of the banlist, players now have the power to remove any player from any of his maps indefinitely. The potential for griefing is great on both sides, so I decided to create this thread to fix these issues. This is where you complain about being banned from a map without a reason or for something silly (i.e. refusing to allyend). When you appeal, the mapmaker will be required to provide screenshots explaining the ban reason, otherwise the ban will be lifted.

Cheers!

Напишано од Tik-Tok, 27.07.2014 at 08:35

Swash is being silly but I see no evidence of him griefing actual games. Please unban him. And Swash, can you please not spam the list? Do so again and the punishment will be reinstated. You had your fun.

Accountability is key. This thread is needed. Ban list is for griefers only or those who dont abide by map specific rules such as allying France as Britian in a game which specifically states the two cannot ally.

Screencaps are required for evidence of bans. This design of the BanlIst is not what we asked for but it is a stable compromise. It wont be as fast as a personal Auto-Ban but it will certainly be alot more fair and calm the nerves of those unhappy with it.

To those who fear new players will unfairly punished. They can appeal and their past actions saved if they repeat them. It will be up to the Mapmaker. This will require alot of case by case investigation, especially when it comes to Leavers or Trolls but ultimately, it not hard to differentiate between the naive and the malicous.

All in all, this is a step in the right direction and Im happy to have mods on board with it. We all need to work together to maintain a fair system that targets those who seek to grief our games aswell as oversight on those who seek to abuse the ban list.

Напишано од KYBL, 13.01.2015 at 10:42

Abuse is minimal, very few people actually ban people they don't like. The ones who doo will be taken out by the market. I already explained this in an economic perspective. It is undesirable to ban too many people from your map.

Moderator abuse and mapmaker "abuse" are two very different things. AtWar doesn't have arbitrary rules where the mod's can do whatever they want, Atwar has a set of rules that the mod's must follow. In this case, they are not following them. Map makers are not required to provide rules, and there are no rules sst by the devs on how we regulate our maps. You can call it abuse, but we are not breaking any rules, and if you really demand such, we can write in our games that you can be banned arbitrarily for any reason.

Humans aren't parasitical viruses, self entitled pricks like the childish fucktards opposing more power to map makers are parasites. You are the ones who demand shit for doing nothing. You are the ones who lay claim to other people's property. So fuck you, and fuck your bullshit.

Напишано од Columna Durruti, 13.01.2015 at 08:07

You use it as a tool of power, I use it as a tool to enhance gaming experience.

Напишано од Milton Friedman, 13.01.2015 at 09:25

Your arguments are based on the illusion that you are making your own stuff on your own property.

Напишано од Milton Friedman, 13.01.2015 at 09:25

Your maps are uploaded to atWar, which makes all of your rights nullified since you don't own atWar.
Its just like if I am taking my phone to a friend's house. It's maybe my phone, but I can only use it, or even bring it, if I am allowed by the host, as it his property. And if I am allowed to, I will have to follow the rules set by the property owner on how I can use it, again since it is his property.

In the same way, your map is hosted on atWar, which means that you will have to follow the rules set by the owners, Ivan and Amok. Now, if you want them to change the rules, that would be ok (even though it would still be a terrible idea), but you are acting like it is your right to ban everyone who isn't a cunt.

So you will have to obey the rules set by the admins, or take your map and gtfo of atWar.

Напишано од RaulPB, 13.01.2015 at 11:21

Напишано од KYBL, 13.01.2015 at 10:42

Abuse is minimal, very few people actually ban people they don't like. The ones who doo will be taken out by the market. I already explained this in an economic perspective. It is undesirable to ban too many people from your map.

Moderator abuse and mapmaker "abuse" are two very different things. AtWar doesn't have arbitrary rules where the mod's can do whatever they want, Atwar has a set of rules that the mod's must follow. In this case, they are not following them. Map makers are not required to provide rules, and there are no rules sst by the devs on how we regulate our maps. You can call it abuse, but we are not breaking any rules, and if you really demand such, we can write in our games that you can be banned arbitrarily for any reason.

Humans aren't parasitical viruses, self entitled pricks like the childish fucktards opposing more power to map makers are parasites. You are the ones who demand shit for doing nothing. You are the ones who lay claim to other people's property. So fuck you, and fuck your bullshit.

First of all... CHILL! For god sake, this is a fucking game.... why do you need to be so agressive?? Is someone pointing at you with a gun?? Chill already...

In any case, you're wasting your time here. You should talk to admins about your issue, not with the community since it's something for your personal interest, not for the community's interest. It's nice that you guys get to ban trolls, assholes or whatever undesired cheater. But... wanting to ban just for arbitrary reasons.... just "because yes"... maybe you won't abuse this option but you can't talk for everyone else. That's too risky in my opinion. There always needs to be a superior rule that regulates everything else. You may point out whatever mechanism market has of working, but the fact is that nowadays' market is killing the world, so it's invalid.

Напишано од Columna Durruti, 13.01.2015 at 08:07

You use it as a tool of power, I use it as a tool to enhance gaming experience.

If this is the case, then you don't need "more power", you just need a single ss... Is it that hard? If you really don't want to abuse it and use it for the better, is there any problem in having to provide a ss?? I guess that if you ban someone for being, for example, a rule breaker, then you must have seen him breaking a rule or been given a proof of his actions. Then just share what you saw / were given.

Напишано од Khal.eesi, 13.01.2015 at 11:04

I never claimed or demanded shit from you.I dont even play any of your maps. But ill be damned if i dont give you all the hard cold truth, which is that you are all hypocrits and liars and if i dont defend innocent people who cant enjoy the game because of reason "NULL" or "my hand slipped" (funny i admit) and other bullshit like this.When you were all begging for the banlist, you didnt have this bad boy attitude.And i know cause i was there, supporting all of you.I guess the people that said "no" then, were up to something.

Напишано од Fockmeeard, 13.01.2015 at 12:06

Checklist deciding if mapmakers 100% own their maps or not:

Did they add the cities and capitals onto a handmade image of a map?
Yes.

Did they develop the tools that allowed the creation of their map?
No.

Do they help pay for the map to be hosted on the server?
No.

Did they help write the code that allows the map to be playable?
No.

You guys are responsible for 25% of adding another playable map onto at war. At war owns the rest of the 75%.

gg no re.

Напишано од Desu, 13.01.2015 at 11:15

It's like everyone forgets this:

Напишано од notserral, 25.07.2014 at 08:03

This is where you complain about being banned from a map without a reason or for something silly (i.e. refusing to allyend). When you appeal, the mapmaker will be required to provide screenshots explaining the ban reason, otherwise the ban will be lifted.

Напишано од Tik-Tok, 27.07.2014 at 08:35

They can appeal and their past actions saved if they repeat them. It will be up to the Mapmaker. This will require alot of case by case investigation, especially when it comes to Leavers or Trolls but ultimately, it not hard to differentiate between the naive and the malicous.

Напишано од Tik-Tok, 27.07.2014 at 08:35

We all need to work together to maintain a fair system that targets those who seek to grief our games aswell as oversight on those who seek to abuse the ban list.

Напишано од Desu, 13.01.2015 at 11:15

Stop thinking that the moderators are out to get you. We aren't. We're just trying to make it fair for both the map maker and the common player.