Fixing (not only) seasonal Elo - Part 1: Resetting rating and rank divisions

Напишано од clovis1122, 08.04.2015 at 15:54

Let me tell you two useful pierces of information:

1) You've ruined this thread by yourself. You are quoting whoever state an opinion for somehow make them agree with you, or defame them in public as you've done with me now. Dear sir, you and your thread are a joke.

2) You suggest something, then start trolling the thread all the way? Can you explain me how those image add anything constructive to this suggestion? No you can't. When you stop trolling forums and start taking this serious I'll submit my opinion about this issue.

oh my god, the irony...

Напишано од Guest, 08.04.2015 at 16:18

I don't want to fight personal fights in the forum, I want to discuss ideas. And staying on topic is what I expect of my conversation partners as well.

"Wait, let me hit him first with my insults, then claim that I only want to stay on topic"

---

Completely ignoring the trashtalk and coming on topic, You aren't able to duel till you are rank 3. But by linking the game, you can violate not only this but also other rules such as private pw and rank limits. As far as I know, banlist is the only thing you cannot violate. This explains rank 3-less joining high ranks duel.

As for the upgrades argument, rather than preventing the low ranks from dueling high ranks, there should be some ELO penalty when dueling someone at least two ranks far from your rank. I disagree with preventing low ranks to duel high ranks on any manner.

The reason about this is that low ranks learn by playing high ranks, and honestly many of the now competitive players including myself had learn by losing a bunch of times against the strongest... TopHats beats me 12 times before I ever get my first victory. 34 times before my second victory. I wouldn't call this "ELO farm".

OK, with the last one argument, but you can teach them in normal games or in the clan if he has.

I´ve seen people playing low ranks in duels with the excuse to teach them or see how good are them for joining in his clan like a test or exam

You can learn or they can teach you in normal games don´t you think?

So Tohpats farmed you so hard sorry, again another example why people some times gets that elo peaks.

And i´m right now on the topic.

All the players could reach so a huge elo peak if they play 12 times a rank 4 another 9 times a rank 5, etc etc etc and they could say they reached in the past the top 1 or 2 or 3 or that amount or elo.

Would you duel actually 12 times in a row or not in a row a rank 4 cause he wants to learn?

In this life every relationship, in a game in this case, is based in 2 persons decisions, low rank might want to play the top 1 in the list again and again and again, but the top 1 also has the fair alternative to refuse the duels and offers him another posibilities for teaching him the game without farming his points.

Do you think this is trashtalk or it´s be realistic?

Why is this guy and Goblin so actually reconsidering another posibilities and reading to find solutions?

Did maybe my "trashtalking" make them to reconsider there is something wrong cause the issue of the elo system is not working as good as it could, in that case i don´t think i´m trashtalking.

The system about points is ok, what it´s not ok is when a rank 10 or 11 or 12 duel a rank 4 or 5 cause the upgrades difference for example, you already have enough more experience than him.

This is not chess, where u play only brain against brain, this is a game where also exist the ranks, the upgrades, the generals... (i remember you that this is simply a bussines for getting people to pay his subscription).

So what´s failing is not the points system, are the players games and decisions.

Напишано од clovis1122, 08.04.2015 at 16:49

Напишано од Guest, 08.04.2015 at 16:18

I don't want to fight personal fights in the forum, I want to discuss ideas. And staying on topic is what I expect of my conversation partners as well.

"Wait, let me hit him first with my insults, then claim that I only want to stay on topic"

---

Completely ignoring the trashtalk and coming on topic, You aren't able to duel till you are rank 3. But by linking the game, you can violate not only this but also other rules such as private pw and rank limits. As far as I know, banlist is the only thing you cannot violate. This explains rank 3-less joining high ranks duel.

Agree, but can the high rank refuse to play him?

And i remember you too, the high rank can also got a link to join in the beginners romm.

As for the upgrades argument, rather than preventing the low ranks from dueling high ranks, there should be some ELO penalty when dueling someone at least two ranks far from your rank. I disagree with preventing low ranks to duel high ranks on any manner.

The reason about this is that low ranks learn by playing high ranks, and honestly many of the now competitive players including myself had learn by losing a bunch of times against the strongest... TopHats beats me 12 times before I ever get my first victory. 34 times before my second victory. I wouldn't call this "ELO farm".

I´m not agree with that penalty, cause some times is posible that a rank 8 is premium and has more upgrades than a rank 10 or 11 not premium.

Напишано од Guest, 08.04.2015 at 16:18

Напишано од clovis1122, 08.04.2015 at 15:54

1) You've ruined this thread by yourself. You are quoting whoever state an opinion for somehow make them agree with you, or defame them in public as you've done with me now. Dear sir, you and your thread are a joke.

2) You suggest something, then start trolling the thread all the way? Can you explain me how those image add anything constructive to this suggestion? No you can't. When you stop trolling forums and start taking this serious I'll submit my opinion about this issue.

I addressed every single concern and acknowledged the weak points of my suggestion, trying to find alternatives. This is the definition of leading a constructive discussion, being willing to adjust one's opinion and trying to find the best possible solution to the problem at hand. You come here and either deliberately misinterpret my words or simply are not able of reading comprehension, then insult me in your very first post in this thread. Homoatom went offtopic and everyone followed, so yeah the thread is ruined at this point anyway, as are my last three threads where the exact same thing happened. I'm seriously tired of mentally challenged people derailing my threads, this is where the images come into play, since this is obviously the only way to bring my point across to your retarded hispanic friend.
I was serious until people like you started trolling, don't dare telling me I should take this more serious when I tried for weeks to lead productive discussions here only to have every single thread ruined by a literal spastic who can't do anything but repeat the same stupid opinion for dozens of pages without adding any constructive content, stating in all seriousness that my ideas are good but he won't support it because it's me who suggested it, only to go back to repeating the same shit again and fucking up my threads beyond all recognition. I don't want to fight personal fights in the forum, I want to discuss ideas. And staying on topic is what I expect of my conversation partners as well.

Your insults are out of place ok?

And if you need to talk about me, please call me by my nick.

I would repeat you my opinion about duels and elo again but i did already in three topics (not dozens).

You have admited in other post that u might be wrong and you are reconsidering some things and are reading and looking for solutions, so i don´t think i´m trashtalking.

And i have admited that some ideas could be positives, and some of the tools we have already but u don´t want to use i don´t know why.

All premiums have the posibility of setting rank limits in the duelsfor example, so why do you and other duellers play ranks 4 or 5 and then are you asking for implementing range elo limits in the duels?

Too much inconsistency in that suggestions, still are you not able to admit this?

I make positive arguments in these topics but you say i repeat them again and again so i´m not going to write them again here.

Bla

Напишано од hormigaatomica, 09.04.2015 at 05:23

All premiums have the posibility of setting rank limits in the duelsfor example, so why do you and other duellers play ranks 4 or 5 and then are you asking for implementing range elo limits in the duels?

As I said I don't play atWar anymore, and you won't convince everyone to follow your moral rules. I am trying to find a global solution to the problem that doesn't require you telling everyone what they should do, so please support me in this with discussing the problem. If I get my ideas implemented, the problem will be solved, and nobody will do what you call farming anymore.

It´s your choice.

I´m not trying to convince everybody what to do, everybody can difference what´s wrong or not.

As i said, i´m just telling my opinion and the first step to follow.

And finally, at this point, i would like to ask you one last thing.

If you repeat again and again that it´s not farming, how do you name so the fact when a high rank duel low ranks or when someone make and alt account and hide behind it his real account and experience dueling other new players, or taking links for join in begginers room for dueling low ranks, etc..?

What do you say is that so? How do you name it?

You always said it´s not farming, what´s so in your opinion?

Напишано од hormigaatomica, 09.04.2015 at 10:22

It´s your choice.

I´m not trying to convince everybody what to do, everybody can difference what´s wrong or not.

As i said, i´m just telling my opinion and the first step to follow.

And finally, at this point, i would like to ask you one last thing.

If you repeat again and again that it´s not farming, how do you name so the fact when a high rank duel low ranks or when someone make and alt account and hide behind it his real account and experience dueling other new players, or taking links for join in begginers room for dueling low ranks, etc..?

What do you say is that so? How do you name it?

You always said it´s not farming, what´s so in your opinion?

I call it high ranks playing low ranks. There would be no problem with anyone doing this given enough time and high duel-activity. I will quote myself once again, but you didn't read this the last time, so why would you now.

Наводници:

Elo:
Every big game nowadays has ranking systems for their competitive game modes, most use the Elo rating system, which was also recently introduced for clan wars in atWar. The Elo rating system calculates the relative skill levels of players, in a way that rewards actual skill rather than simply beating thousands of noobs. I will give a short overview: Imagine two values, one is your Elo-number, while the other is the abstract notion of your 'real skill level'. When you start playing your Elo-number is the standardized 'average'. If you beat a player, you gain a certain amount of points, and your opponent loses the equal amount. This means the 'average' will always stay the same, which in turn means that relative player strength can always be measured by comparing it against the mean. If you imagine a static real skill level in form of a numerical value, then the more opponents you play the more your Elo-number will approach this value. Farming in this system is only possible by win trading. What people call 'farming Elo' at the moment is simply playing low ranked players who have less experience. In reality both Elo-numbers approach the 'real value' though. If you take skilled players like Chess or Laochra for example, imagine their real skill level at 2000 rather than 1497 and 1565. The current #1 bluecher2 would never reach this number in reality, but rather stagnate at some number like 1750.
Now that i have made my case for Elo, if you still want you can get more detailed information on the ranking system, on the according page on Wikipedia.

Even the fact that high ranked players have more upgrades would hardly if there were a 1000 duels played by the 50 highest rated players per day, but since this isn't the case I now support a modified version of the original system. This is really all I have to say regarding your question.

I told you that i know how elo system works.

But you are talking literally, and supporting your opinnion only in the theory.

But you know perfectly that is not the real game.

The real issue is that farming exist as u say in your text: What people call 'farming Elo' at the moment is simply playing low ranked players who have less experience.

Bah, i was going to give you more examples but don´t want to go on with this issue.

Напишано од hormigaatomica, 09.04.2015 at 11:19

Bah, i was going to give you more examples but don´t want to go on with this issue.

Good, me neither.